5 people competition

Logic Level 4

There were 5 people, and let's just call them A, B, C, D and E for simplicity's sake. They were each given a distinct natural number 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, and also a distinct roman numeral I, II, III, IV or V, but not necessarily in that order.

Note that each person received a different number from all other people person and also received a different Roman numeral from them.

Each person only knew what they were given and did not know what the others were given. Each turn one will say something about the numbers given to them. They were to raise their hand if they knew what everyone had (numbers and roman numerals) and if that person was correct , he/she will get candy, so everyone wanted to get it first. Everyone knew about the first paragraph beforehand, so they know that no one would get what they have. And also, they were only given one try.

This is how it went...

A: My roman numeral and natural number are consecutive (ascending or descending). I hope that isn't too discrete.

B: That is. Anyway, my 2 numbers are also consecutive... if you think of it like a cycle. For instance, 5 and 1 are consecutive. I hope everyone will now give easier clues. Basically, one of my number is 5 and one is a 1.

C: No way. I'm not giving easy hints. My natural number is even.

D: That's not very nice! But thanks to B for giving us that hint! That helped me know what B has. And there's my hint.

E: You all probably helped me best. I now know all the natural numbers' owners. That's probably a very good hint. Since I think I'm ahead, I will give you all another clue. Right after the second clue was given, I know that the sum of my natural number and roman number is the highest here, and no one draws with me. I did not know this before that. Wait, this is too large a hint!!

Just as they were about to continue, someone raised his hand and answered correctly. (He was 100% sure about it!)

Who was it?

The numbers / roman numerals each person had were:
A had 3 and IV.
B had 5 and I.
C had 2 and II.
D had 1 and III.
E had 4 and V.

Moderator C only A only E only B only D only No one More or equal to 2 people

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2 solutions

Pi Han Goh
Feb 13, 2016

This problem is best solved using elimination grids . Let's start by drawing out the grid of the numbers versus the alphabets:

Letter  Number 1 2 3 4 5 A B C D E \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 \\ \hline A & & & & & \\ \hline B & & & & & \\ \hline C & & & & & \\ \hline D & & & & & \\ \hline E & & & & & \\ \hline \end{array}

A's statement:

My roman numeral and natural number are consecutive (ascending or descending). I hope that isn't too discrete.

wasn't helpful at all.

However, B's statement:

That is. Anyway, my 2 numbers are also consecutive... if you think of it like a cycle. For instance, 5 and 1 are consecutive. I hope everyone will now give easier clues. Basically, one of my number is 5 and one is a 1."

is helpful, because we can rule out the possibility that B has either 2, 3 or 4. By updating the grid, we have

Letter  Number 1 2 3 4 5 A B × × × C D E \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 \\ \hline A & & & & & \\ \hline B & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline C & & & & & \\ \hline D & & & & & \\ \hline E & & & & & \\ \hline \end{array}

Similarly, C's statement

No way. I'm not giving easy hints. My natural number is even.

was helpful, because only 2 and 4 are even numbers.

Letter  Number 1 2 3 4 5 A B × × × C × × × D E \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 \\ \hline A & & & & & \\ \hline B & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline C & \times & & \times & & \times \\ \hline D & & & & & \\ \hline E & & & & & \\ \hline \end{array}

Similarly, D's statement:

That's not very nice! But thanks to B for giving us that hint! That helped me know what B has. And there's my hint.

was helpful as well. This is only possible if D also have a 1 or 5 only.

Letter  Number 1 2 3 4 5 A B × × × C × × × D × × × E \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 \\ \hline A & & & & & \\ \hline B & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline C & \times & & \times & & \times \\ \hline D & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline E & & & & & \\ \hline \end{array}

And because B and D must have the numbers 1 and 5 (not necessarily respectively), then the other users can't have the numbers 1 and 5.

Letter  Number 1 2 3 4 5 A × × B × × × C × × × D × × × E × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 \\ \hline A & \times & & & & \times \\ \hline B & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline C & \times & & \times & & \times \\ \hline D & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline E & \times & & & & \times \\ \hline \end{array}

E's statement was helpful as well:

Right after the second clue was given, I know that the sum of my natural number and roman number is the highest here, and no one draws with me. I did not know this before that.

Because he/she can make such a bold claim, then both his/her numbers must be maximized. In other words, his natural number is 4 and his roman numeral is V.

Letter  Number 1 2 3 4 5 A × × B × × × C × × × D × × × E × × × × Letter  Number 1 2 3 4 5 A × × × × B × × × C × × × × D × × × E × × × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 \\ \hline A & \times & & & & \times \\ \hline B & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline C & \times & & \times & & \times \\ \hline D & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline E & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline \end{array} \quad \Rightarrow \quad \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Number} & 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & 5 \\ \hline A & \times &\times &\checkmark &\times & \times \\ \hline B & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline C & \times & \checkmark & \times & \times & \times \\ \hline D & & \times & \times & \times & \\ \hline E & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline \end{array}

Similarly, we construct the grid for alphabets versus roman numerals and filling up all the details previously obtained, we have

Letter  Roman I I I I I I I V V A × × × B × × × × C × × D × × E × × × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Roman} & \rm {I} & \rm {II} & \rm {III} & \rm {IV} & \rm {V} \\ \hline A & \times & & \times & & \times \\ \hline B & \checkmark & \times & \times & \times & \times \\ \hline C & \times & & & & \times \\ \hline D & \times & & & & \times \\ \hline E &\times & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \end{array}

Now we just need to consider all the five cases that the author has provided:

Case one : A is the one raised his hand and answered correctly, and A had 3 and IV.
Case two : B is the one raised his hand and answered correctly, and B had 5 and I.
Case three : C is the one raised his hand and answered correctly, and C had 2 and II.
Case four : D is the one raised his hand and answered correctly, and D had 1 and III.
Case five : E is the one raised his hand and answered correctly, and E had 4 and V.

It is impossible to be case two because there like the rest of the readers, we already know what B have and can't provide any additional details. This applies for case five as well.

If case one is true, then

Letter  Roman I I I I I I I V V A × × × × B × × × × C × × × D × × × E × × × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Roman} & \rm {I} & \rm {II} & \rm {III} & \rm {IV} & \rm {V} \\ \hline A & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline B & \checkmark & \times & \times & \times & \times \\ \hline C & \times & & & \times & \times \\ \hline D & \times & & & \times & \times \\ \hline E &\times & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \end{array}

But we couldn't complete the grid, so it's impossible for case two to be true.

Similarly, if it's case four, we will obtain a similar inconclusive grid.

Letter  Roman I I I I I I I V V A × × × B × × × × C × × × D × × × E × × × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Roman} & \rm {I} & \rm {II} & \rm {III} & \rm {IV} & \rm {V} \\ \hline A & \times & & \times & & \times \\ \hline B & \checkmark & \times & \times & \times & \times \\ \hline C & \times & & \times & & \times \\ \hline D & \times & & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline E &\times & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \end{array}

This leaves us with case three, and the illustration in the grid below indeed checks out.

Letter  Roman I I I I I I I V V A × × × B × × × × C × × × × D × × E × × × × Letter  Roman I I I I I I I V V A × × × × B × × × × C × × × × D × × × × E × × × × \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Roman} & \rm {I} & \rm {II} & \rm {III} & \rm {IV} & \rm {V} \\ \hline A & \times & & \times & & \times \\ \hline B & \checkmark & \times & \times & \times & \times \\ \hline C & \times & \checkmark & \times & \times & \times \\ \hline D & \times & & & & \times \\ \hline E &\times & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \end{array} \quad \Rightarrow \quad \begin{array} {| c | c | c | c | c| c | } \hline \text{Letter \ Roman} & \rm {I} & \rm {II} & \rm {III} & \rm {IV} & \rm {V} \\ \hline A & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline B & \checkmark & \times & \times & \times & \times \\ \hline C & \times & \checkmark & \times & \times & \times \\ \hline D & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark & \times \\ \hline E &\times & \times & \times & \times & \checkmark \\ \hline \end{array}

Hence our answer is C only.

Moderator note:

Very clearly explained. The use of the elimination grid framework makes the information easy to view at a glance, and thus makes it quicker to perform the analysis.

How long did it take you to write out this solution? That's so much better than mine...

However, note that D may not have 1 or 5. He could have I or V. We know B has 1/V or 5/I so if D has 1, 5, I or V, he would know what B has as well.

Aloysius Ng - 5 years, 4 months ago

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Took me about 20 minutes to write it up.

No, we can immediately obtain the fact that B and D have the digits of 1 and 5 only, D doesn't need to know what roman numeral B has.

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 4 months ago

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What I mean is that if D has V, he can infer B has 5/I and if D has I he can infer B has 1/V. So D doesn't need a 5 or 1 to infer what B has; he can also have I or V.

Aloysius Ng - 5 years, 4 months ago
Aloysius Ng
Feb 6, 2016

Firstly, this question took "years" too finish, so yeah, hope you liked it.

I suggest that one may invite 5 people to do this as an experiment (and yes, the candy as well, but... moving on)

Part 1 . Why C?

1 . C knows that he has 2 and II.

2 . Also, C knows that E has a sum of 9. Why?

If it were 10, he would have known before the hints.

If it were below that, he would not have known he was the highest. This is left to the reader to figure out.

3.1 . Let E have 4 and V.

Then B has I and 5 since V is already taken.

Also, D will then have 1 since I, V and 5 are already taken.

Thus, A has a 3 since 1, 2, 4 and 5 are already taken. This implies A has a II or IV.

Therefore, A has IV, since C has the II.

So, we have: A , 3, IV. B , 5, I. C , 2, II. D , 1, III. E , 4, V.

3.2 . Let E have 5 and IV.

By logical deduction, you will get A , 4, III. B , 1, V. C , 2, II. D , 3, I. E , 5, IV.

4 . Why 3.1, not 3.2?

If it were 3.2, E will only get that B is 1 in addition to E is 5. He does not get anything else.

However, if it were 3.1, E can get who the natural values were given to.

Part 2 . Why not others?

Because the others cannot get the roman numerals. All have confusion over A and C (which has II and which has IV) while A has confusion over C and D (which has II and which has III).

Many things were omitted, and the reader is encouraged to figure these gaps out.

Nice solution!

Ameya Salankar - 5 years, 4 months ago

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Not anymore... (Refer to other solution(s))

Aloysius Ng - 5 years, 4 months ago

Did you create this question yourself? Pretty neat setup too!

Pi Han Goh - 5 years, 4 months ago

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Yep, and it took quite long too. I was lucky C could solve everyone's answers this quickly since I was about to write another few statements after the intermission! (And then everything would go mad).

It actually took 2 hours to set this question.

Thanks!

Aloysius Ng - 5 years, 4 months ago

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