A three sided die?

Alex and Xela play the game again (here is the link to the previous problem which contains the game rules and the way to calculate the score) but this time it’s with a custom die made by Alex using a wax mould, and this die just has three faces ! ! With the numbers 1 , 2 1,2 and 3 3 on its faces. Alex being a little cunning makes the mould of the die in a such a way that the die made will be biased but both the die are equally biased as he has only one mould ( 1 1 will have the same probability of appearing in both die, same with 2 2 and 3 3 ). If the maximum expected score he can get can be represented as A + B C A+B\sqrt{C} ,where A , B A,B are integers and C C is not a square, enter A + B + C A+B+C

Bonus Question 1 : What are the probabilities of 1 , 2 1,2 and 3 3 appearing on the dice, when the expected score is the highest?

Bonus Question 2 : Can you make a fair three sided die, if yes show an example, if not explain your reasons


The answer is 21.

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1 solution

Jason Gomez
Feb 14, 2021

Let the probabilities of getting 1,2,3 on the dice be p , q , r p,q,r , so p + q + r = 1 p+q+r=1

Chance of getting out C C is p 2 + q 2 + r 2 p^2+ q^2+ r^2

Average score A A per round if not out is 4 p q + 6 q r + 6 p r 1 C \dfrac{4pq+6qr+6pr}{1-C}

Let expected score be X X , if one round is over Alex has C C chance of being out or 1 C 1-C chance of scoring A A and playing on to score the expected score.

So X = 0 C + ( 1 C ) ( A + X ) C X = A ( 1 C ) = 4 p q + 6 q r + 6 p r X=0*C+(1-C)(A+X) ⇒ CX= A(1-C) = 4pq+6qr+6pr

X = 4 p q + 6 q r + 6 p r p 2 + q 2 + r 2 ⇒X=\frac{4pq+6qr+6pr}{p^2+ q^2+ r^2}

We know that at the maximum or minimum of X X , it’s partial derivative’s with respect to p , q p,q and r r will be all equal to zero

Taking the partial derivative’s and equating to zero we get the following three equations.

2 p ( 4 p q + 6 q r + 6 p r ) = ( 4 q + 6 r ) ( p 2 + q 2 + r 2 ) 1 2p(4pq+6qr+6pr)=(4q+6r)(p^2+ q^2+ r^2) ➝ 1 2 q ( 4 p q + 6 q r + 6 p r ) = ( 4 p + 6 r ) ( p 2 + q 2 + r 2 ) 2 2q(4pq+6qr+6pr)=(4p+6r)(p^2+ q^2+ r^2) ➝ 2 2 r ( 4 p q + 6 q r + 6 p r ) = ( 6 q + 6 p ) ( p 2 + q 2 + r 2 ) 3 2r(4pq+6qr+6pr)=(6q+6p)(p^2+ q^2+ r^2) ➝ 3

Adding all these three equations results in:

2 ( p + q + r ) ( 4 p q + 6 q r + 6 p r ) = ( 10 q + 10 p + 12 r ) ( p 2 + q 2 + r 2 ) 2(p+q+r)(4pq+6qr+6pr)=(10q+10p+12r) (p^2+ q^2+ r^2)

Since p + q + r = 1 p+q+r=1 and X = 4 p q + 6 q r + 6 p r p 2 + q 2 + r 2 X=\dfrac{4pq+6qr+6pr}{p^2+ q^2+ r^2}

We get : X = 5 p + 5 q + 6 r X=5p+5q+6r or r = X 5 r=X-5 and p + q = 6 X p+q=6-X

Rearranging equation 3 we get : X × r = 3 ( p + q ) X × r = 3(p+q) Substituting for X X X ( X 5 ) = 3 ( 6 X ) X(X-5)=3(6-X) X 2 2 X 18 = 0 ⇒ X^{2}-2X-18=0 X = 1 + 19 \therefore X=1+\sqrt{19} We are ignoring the negative root

r = X 5 = 19 4 r=X-5=\sqrt{19}-4

Since p and q are symmetric in equations 1 1 and 2 , p = q 2,p=q

p + q = 6 X = 5 19 p = q = 5 19 2 p+q=6-X=5-\sqrt{19} ⇒ p=q=\dfrac{5-\sqrt{19}}2

Give your ideas for a three faced die down here \downarrow

It's interesting that p = q p=q in this. Can you think of an intuitive explanation for that?

Regarding three-sided dice... 1) use a spinner 2) renumber the sides of a six-sided die (or a twelve-sided one...) 2a) use a six-sided die; if the score is greater than 3 3 , turn it upside-down 3) make the die in the shape of a triangular prism with rounded ends?? (Or at least, ends it won't be stable on)

Chris Lewis - 3 months, 3 weeks ago

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If u see the scores produced by 1 and 2 they are the same, so yeah this is the intuition for them being equal

Jason Gomez - 3 months, 3 weeks ago

My idea for the three faced die was to have two sided figures as the faces (the two sides are circular curves) and the when rolled the number which can’t be seen is the one taken. I do like your idea of the triangular prism, just keep rolling till it does land on a flat side

Jason Gomez - 3 months, 3 weeks ago

This is the modified prism I meant - the pyramids on the ends aren't stable (if the die lands on one of these, it will fall over)

Chris Lewis - 3 months, 3 weeks ago

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Nice, my two sided figure is almost the same, just forget about the 6 blue triangular vertices by smoothing the orange pink orange line segment to a curve

Jason Gomez - 3 months, 3 weeks ago

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