Application of derivatives

Calculus Level 1

A = 100 100 , B = 101 101 \large \begin{aligned} A = \sqrt[100]{100 }, \quad \quad B = \sqrt[101]{101} \end{aligned} Which is greater, A A or B ? B?

A > B A > B B > A B > A A = B A = B

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9 solutions

Sabhrant Sachan
Sep 13, 2017

Consider f ( x ) = x 1 x f ( x ) = x 1 / x ( 1 x 2 ln x x 2 ) f ( x ) > 0 x < e x 1 > x 2 x 1 , x 2 > e f ( x 1 ) < f ( x 2 ) for x 1 = 101 & x 2 = 100 10 1 1 101 < 10 0 1 100 \text{Consider } f(x)=x^{ \frac{1}{x}} \\ f^{'}(x) = x^{1/x} \left( \dfrac{1}{x^2} - \dfrac{\ln{x}}{x^2} \right) \\ f^{'}(x) > 0 \hspace{3mm} \forall \hspace{3mm} x<e \\ \forall \hspace{3mm} x_{1} > x_{2} \hspace{3mm} x_{1} , x_{2} > e \hspace{3mm} f(x_{1}) < f(x_{2}) \\ \text{for } x_{1}=101 \hspace{3mm} \text{ \& } \hspace{3mm} x_{2}=100 \\ 101^{\frac{1}{101}} < 100^{\frac{1}{100}}

Moderator note:

Side note: One of the fun alternative definitions of e e is the value that maximizes x 1 x ; x^\frac{1}{x}; that is, exactly where the derivative is 0.

Typo: f'(x) > 0 should be f'(x) < 0.

Gauthier Muguerza - 3 years, 8 months ago

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It is correct for x<e . @Gauthier Muguerza .

Sabhrant Sachan - 3 years, 8 months ago

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@Sambhrant Sachan Indeed, my bad ! But x1 = 101 and x2 = 100 are clearly greater than e.

Gauthier Muguerza - 3 years, 8 months ago

101.00990099>100.01. Problem wasn't very clear to me.

Erich Kcalb - 3 years, 8 months ago

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Could you please explain what was the issue, so that we can edit the problem for clarity?

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 8 months ago

Dude... 100 * 1/100 is 1... and 101 * 1/101 is also one. The two are the same. They are both one, and ergo... they are equal. Also... no idea how am I suppose to comment on the problem. The button is hidden or not there... and still no clue how to do new lines / carriage returns in Latex. So sorry if the comment is in the wrong place... there literally was nothing on my display to comment properly... so if you guys don't like it... eh... well, nothing can be done about it.

Katrina Payne - 3 years, 8 months ago

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Gosh... gonna try to find that box now...

Katrina Payne - 3 years, 8 months ago

You might find this helpful as a LaTeX guide . Alternately, you could use codecogs to do this.

Please refrain from using profanity on Brilliant.

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 8 months ago
Calvin Lin Staff
Sep 20, 2017

Most of the approaches use calculus, because that's how most people are first introduced to this idea of x 1 x x^ { \frac{1}{x} } . In this case, we can use the binomial theorem directly:

We want to compare 10 0 101 100 ^ { 101} with 10 1 100 101 ^ { 100 } . They look very similar, especially if we write 10 1 100 = ( 100 + 1 ) 100 101^{100} = (100 + 1) ^ {100} . Now, let's see what we get:

10 1 100 = ( 100 + 1 ) 100 = 10 0 100 + ( 100 1 ) × 10 0 99 + ( 100 2 ) × 10 0 98 + + ( 100 99 ) × 10 0 1 + 1 10 0 101 = 100 × 10 0 100 = 10 0 100 + 100 × 10 0 99 + 10 0 2 × 10 0 98 + + 10 0 99 × 100 \begin{array} { l l l l l l l l l l } 101^{100} & = (100 + 1 ) ^ { 100} & = 100^{100} & + {100 \choose 1 } \times 100 ^ { 99} & + {100 \choose 2 } \times 100 ^ { 98} & + \ldots & + {100 \choose 99 } \times 100^ { 1} & + 1 \\ 100^{101} & = 100 \times 100^{100} & = 100^{100} & + 100 \times 100 ^ {99} & + 100^2 \times 100^{98} & + \ldots & + 100^{99} \times 100 \\ \end{array}

Now, can you tell which number is larger?
Can you generalize it to all positive integers n n ? For which integers n n do we have n 1 n > ( n + 1 ) 1 n + 1 n^{ \frac{1}{n}} > (n+1)^{ \frac{ 1}{n+1} } ? (Note: Be carefull of the +1!)

Is 100 ^101 greater?

Timeo Williams - 3 years, 8 months ago

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Yes. The answer to this problem is that 10 0 1 100 > 10 1 1 101 100 ^ \frac{ 1}{100} > 101^\frac{1}{101} , which implies that 10 0 101 > 10 1 100 100^ { 101} > 101^{100} .

Do you see how my solution allows us to reach that conclusion? Hint: Compare each column. Watch out for the +1.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 8 months ago

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It is very helpful when people use a better typeface than "Brilliant" uses. I was confused, and read the problem as 100 x 1/100 = 1, as 101 x 1/101 = 1

Mike Walsh - 3 years, 8 months ago

It is simpler 100^{1/100} ? 101^{1/101} => 100^{101/100} ? 101^{101/101} => 100^{1+0.01} ? 101 => 100+100^0.01 ? 101 => 100^0.01 ? 1 => 100^0.01 > 100^0 => 100^{1/100} > 101^{1/101}

Nik Zaitsev - 3 years, 8 months ago

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Sorry, mistake. See main stream.

Nik Zaitsev - 3 years, 8 months ago

We want to compare 10 0 101 100^{101} with 10 1 100 101^{100} .

True. And you could also restate it as comparing 100 100 with 1.0 1 100 1.01^{100} . So what has been shown here is equivalent, in financial terms, to saying that a one-time increase of 9900% is greater than 100 increases of 1% each. (Quite a lot greater as it happens.)

Peter Byers - 3 years, 8 months ago
Arjen Vreugdenhil
Sep 17, 2017

Relevant wiki: Logarithms

Let f ( x ) = ln x 1 / x = ln x x f(x) = \ln x^{1/x} = \dfrac {\ln x} x . Then f ( x ) = 1 ln x x 2 . f'(x) = \frac{1 - \ln x}{x^2}. Since ln x > 1 \ln x > 1 , we have f ( x ) < 0 f'(x) < 0 on the interval x [ 100 , 101 ] x \in [100,101] . Thus f ( x ) f(x) decreases on this interval; and if the logarithm decreases, so does the original function x 1 / x x^{1/x} .

See also this similar problem .

Olivia Smith
Sep 29, 2017

A = A = 1001 100 \frac{1001}{100} = 1000 100 = \frac{1000}{100} + 1 100 + \frac{1}{100} = 10 + 1 100 = 10 + \frac{1}{100}

B = B = 1011 101 \frac{1011}{101} = 1010 101 = \frac{1010}{101} + 1 101 + \frac{1}{101} = 10 + 1 101 = 10 + \frac{1}{101}

1 100 > 1 101 \frac{1}{100} > \frac{1}{101}

Gabriel Cevanna
Sep 20, 2017

Here is another solution that does not require calculus:

A A and B B are both positive, so a valid (in)equality between A A and B B is also valid between A 101 A^{101} and B 101 . B^{101}. (Claim 1)

B 101 = 10 1 ( 1 101 101 ) = 101 A 101 = A A 100 = 100 A \begin{array} {l} B^{101}=101^{(\frac {1}{101}*101)}=101\\ A^{101}=A*A^{100}=100A \end{array}

A 100 = 100 A^{100}=100 and 1.0 1 100 < 10 0 , 1.01^{100} < 100^{†}, so A > 1.01. A>1.01.

Therefore, A 101 > ( 100 1.01 = 101 = B 101 ) A^{101}>(100*1.01=101=B^{101}) and, from Claim 1, A > B \boxed {A>B}

^{†} If this is not intuitive, consider that 1.01 x 1.01x is the same as x + 0.01 x . x+0.01x.

So if x < 2 , x<2, then 1.01 x < ( x + 0.01 2 ) . 1.01x<(x+0.01*2).

Note that 1.0 1 n + 1 = 1.01 1.0 1 n . 1.01^{n+1}=1.01*1.01^n. So as long as 1.0 1 n < 2 , 1.01^{n} < 2, 1.0 1 n + 1 < 1.0 1 n + 0.02. 1.01^{n+1} < 1.01^n+0.02.

Therefore, we can say that 1.0 1 50 1.01^{50} (think 1.0 1 1 + 49 1.01^{1+49} ) is less than 1.01 + 0.02 49 = 1.99. 1.01+0.02*49=1.99.

1.0 1 100 = ( 1.0 1 50 ) 2 < ( 1.99 ) 2 < 100. 1.01^{100}=(1.01^{50})^2 < (1.99)^2 < 100.

Q.E.D.

Very nice. The sequence of steps is slightly convoluted, which makes it hard for someone to understand at a glance. Can you help to clean it up slightly? Let me know if you would like assistance.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 8 months ago

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Thanks. I'll try to see if I can revise for better flow and clarity. I'm still fairly new to solution writing, so I welcome any suggestions/advice you have.

Gabriel Cevanna - 3 years, 8 months ago

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The confusing part was how the logic "jumped all over". Sometimes you were working forwards, sometimes backward, and sometimes sideways. The direct way to write up what you had is:

A > B 100 A = A 101 > B 101 = 101 (explain) A > 1.01 100 = A 100 > ( 1.01 ) 100 \begin{array} {ll} & A > B \\ \Leftrightarrow & 100 A = A^{101} > B ^ {101} = 101 & \text{(explain)} \\ \Leftrightarrow & A > 1.01 \\ \Leftrightarrow & 100 = A^{100} > (1.01)^{100} \\ \end{array}

And then explain why the last line is true using that nice inequality bounding in your boxed paragraph.

This makes it clear to the reader how the steps logically flow from each other, instead of having them hunt down what you intended to say.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 8 months ago
Miksu Rankaviita
Sep 23, 2017

My solution is not a proof but just an intuitive observation.

A > B A > B

10 0 1 100 > 10 1 1 101 100^{\frac{1}{100}} > 101^{\frac{1}{101}}

10 0 101 > 10 1 100 100^{101}>101^{100}

101 ln ( 100 ) > 100 ln ( 101 ) 101\ln(100)>100\ln(101)

100 ln ( 100 ) + ln ( 100 ) > 100 ( ln ( 100 ) + ϵ ) 100\ln(100)+\ln(100)>100(\ln(100)+\epsilon)

100 ln ( 100 ) + ln ( 100 ) > 100 ln ( 100 ) + 100 ϵ 100\ln(100)+\ln(100) > 100\ln(100)+100\epsilon

ln ( 100 ) > 100 ϵ \ln(100) > 100\epsilon

ϵ \epsilon is insignificant so it's a very good guess that the inequality holds.

One good way to quantify how insignificant e e is, is to use the taylor series - error bounds . For example, even taking just the first term (IE linear approximation) and knowing that the curve is concave, we can conclude that ln 101 ln 100 < 1 × d ln x d x 100 = 1 × 1 100 = 0.01 \ln 101 - \ln 100 < 1 \times \frac{d \ln x } { dx} |_{100} = 1 \times \frac{1}{100} = 0.01 . Thus, the inequality follows because ln ( 100 ) > 1 > 100 ϵ \ln (100) > 1 > 100 \epsilon .

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 8 months ago
Jozofrend Horvath
Sep 24, 2017

function f(x) = x^(1/x) reaches its max for x = e, if x tends to + infinity, it tends to 1 ! Not defined for x = 0. Has probably a saddle point somewhere e < x < + infinity.

Hm, does it have a saddle point?

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 8 months ago
Amed Lolo
Sep 22, 2017

Log(B)=log(1.01•100)/101=log(1.01)+log100/101....log(A)=log(100)/100. Log(B)/log(A)=(log(1.01)+log(100)/log100) (100/101)=(100+50 log1.01)/101. Log for base 10. So we have 3 cases log1.01=.02 or >.02or<.02 by using roots of # 10 ........ 10^.5=3.16227,10^.25=1.7782,10^.125=1.3335, 10^.0625=1.75478, 10^.03125=1.0746, 10^.015625=1.0366 so log1.01<.02. So 100+50*log1.01<101 so log(B)<log(A) so A>β######

Nik Zaitsev
Sep 21, 2017

It is simpler

10 0 1 / 100 ? 10 1 1 / 101 = > 100^{1/100} ? 101^{1/101} =>

10 0 101 / 100 ? 10 1 101 / 101 = > 100^{101/100} ? 101^{101/101} =>

10 0 1 + 0.01 ? 101 = > 100^{1+0.01} ? 101 =>

100 10 0 0.01 ? 101 = > 100*100^{0.01} ? 101 =>

10 0 0.01 ? 1 + 0.01 = > 100^{0.01} ? 1+ 0.01 =>

l n ( 10 0 0.01 ) ? l n ( 1 + 0.01 ) = > ln(100^{0.01}) ? ln(1+0.01) =>

0.01 l n ( 100 ) ? 0.01 + O ( 1 0 4 ) = > 0.01*ln(100) ? 0.01+O(10^{-4}) =>

l n ( 100 ) ? 1 + O ( 0.01 ) ln(100) ? 1 + O(0.01)

since l n ( 100 ) > l n ( 3 4 ) > l n ( e 4 ) = 4 = > ln(100)>ln(3^4)>ln(e^4)=4 =>

10 0 1 / 100 > 10 1 1 / 101 100^{1/100} > 101^{1/101}

You have to be careful with O notation. Saying that the function f ( x ) = O ( x ) f(x) = O ( x ) doesn't mean that f ( x ) x f(x) \leq x everywhere.

I didn't want to resort to logs, because it's not obvious how it could be extended to a general n n . Also, at what point does your proof break down when comparing 2 1 / 2 , 3 1 / 3 2 ^ { 1/2} , 3 ^ { 1/3 } ?

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 8 months ago

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Generalisation was not my goal. Above solution on f ( x ) = x 1 / X f(x)=x^{1/X} is perfect.

Nik Zaitsev - 3 years, 8 months ago

This specific problem can be solved applying ( ) 6 (\cdot)^6 to both sides.

Nik Zaitsev - 3 years, 8 months ago

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