Ball Game

Celia and Paul are sitting at a round table with a number of other people. They play a game in which they pass a ball around the table, always to the person to the left. The ball starts with Celia, and after 6 passes, Paul has the ball. After 9 additional passes, Celia has the ball again.

Is it possible that Celia and Paul are sitting next to each other?

This section requires Javascript.
You are seeing this because something didn't load right. We suggest you, (a) try refreshing the page, (b) enabling javascript if it is disabled on your browser and, finally, (c) loading the non-javascript version of this page . We're sorry about the hassle.

10 solutions

Steven Yuan
Jun 20, 2017

Let n n be the number of people in the group. Starting from Celia and going clockwise, we label each person with the numbers 0 , 1 , 2 , , n 1 , 0, 1, 2, \dots, n - 1, so that after k k passes, the person with the number k ( m o d n ) k \! \pmod{n} has the ball.

From the given information, we know that Paul's number is 6 ( m o d n ) 6 \! \pmod{n} and Celia's number is 15 ( m o d n ) . 15 \! \pmod{n}. Since we let Celia be at position 0, we must have 15 0 ( m o d n ) . 15 \equiv 0 \! \pmod{n}. If Paul were next to Celia, then we also have 6 ± 1 ( m o d n ) , 6 \equiv \pm 1 \! \pmod{n}, since the positions next to Celia are 1 and n 1 1 ( m o d n ) . n - 1 \equiv -1 \! \pmod{n}.

We have a system of congruences, and our question is whether there exists n n that satisfies them. Indeed, n = 5 n = 5 satisfies both congruences: 15 0 ( m o d 5 ) , 15 \equiv 0 \! \pmod{5}, and 6 1 ( m o d 5 ) . 6 \equiv 1 \! \pmod{5}. Thus, we conclude that yes , it is possible for Celia and Paul to be sitting next to each other.

Umm, what are some math concepts needed to be known to do this. I am not that high of a grade (becoming a highschooler next year) and would like to learn this early. And this all looks like pig latin to me.

Smail Barkouch - 3 years, 11 months ago

Log in to reply

Check out this wiki page for info on modular arithmetic. Essentially, modular arithmetic is a fancy way of dealing with remainders when dividing by whole numbers.

Steven Yuan - 3 years, 11 months ago

Exactly, I was thinking the same thing. Someone who has studied modular arithmetic isn't likely to want the solution for this..

Samuel Shadrach - 3 years, 11 months ago

Log in to reply

Of course, using modular arithmetic is overkill for this easier problem, but the nice thing about the method is that it generalizes for larger numbers. For instance, you can use the method to prove that it is possible for Paul and Celine to be sitting next to each other if it takes 2017 passes for the ball to reach Celine and 1010 more passes to reach Paul.

Steven Yuan - 3 years, 11 months ago
Steven Perkins
Jun 20, 2017

There is probably a nice general way to solve such problems using group theory or something, but I just tried a few arrangements until I found something that worked.

If Paul is immediately to Celia's left with 3 other people it works out as described. I believe that is the unique solution here.

Paul gets the ball on pass 1, then (with 5 people total) on pass number 6. Celia gets it 4 passes later, then again in 5 more passes for a total of 9 after Paul has it.

Now I have to sit down, as my head still seems to be spinning.

Great solution! Just a matter of trial and error...

William Huang - 3 years, 11 months ago

I also fell back on empiricism (C= a nickel, P= a dime with an increasing number of pennies!)! I was trying to work it out with number bases but became doubtful of my counting method. Now that I know there is a clear solution I would like to build an efficient method to get there with thought alone!

Philip Guest - 3 years, 11 months ago
Richard Desper
Jun 26, 2017

After 15 passes, Celia has the ball again. This implies that the number of people at the table is a factor of 15: 1, 3, 5, or 15. If we check these possibilities it's obvious that if there are five people at the table, Paul is at Celia's left. We don't really need modular arithmetic here.

This seems exactly right to me. Not only is it possible that Paul is next to Celia; it's the only possibility.

Kenneth Duda - 3 years, 11 months ago

Log in to reply

Right, I prefer to ask "MUST Paul and Celia be next to each other?"

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 11 months ago
Mohammad Khaza
Jun 25, 2017

obviously possible.Paul is sitting right to Celia.

I think you're missing the question... You need to show an example where that works. I don't think Paul can be to the right of Celia (he must be to the left - see Steven's answer).

Mourits de Beer - 3 years, 11 months ago
Uros Stojkovic
Jun 25, 2017

Problem states: The ball starts with Celia and after 6 6 passes it's with Paul. If Celia sits next to the Paul, that means that the ball would have been with Celia after 5 5 or 7 7 passes from the beginning of the game. So, we can conclude that one round would consist of 5 5 or 7 7 passes. If it consists of 5 5 passes, then after every 5 t h 5th pass ( 5 , 10 , 15 , . . . ) (5, 10, 15,...) the ball will be with Celia. And the problem states that after 9 9 passes after initial 6 6 , the ball is again with Celia. Since 6 + 9 = 15 6+9=15 , it is possible that Celia and Paul sit next to each other.

There are N > 2 N > 2 people around the table. (And N = 3 N = 3 would be pushing "number of people"...)

The ball goes from Celia to Celia in 6 + 9 = 15 6 + 9 = 15 moves. Thus 15 15 is a multiple of N N . This means N = 3 , 5 , 15 N = 3, 5, 15 .

We can rule out N = 3 N = 3 because then the first six passes would also end up at Celia.

So consider N = 5 N = 5 . After five moves, Celia has the ball; after six moves (we are told), Paul has it. Therefore Paul sits to the left of Celia in this case.

Akshay Gupta
Jul 1, 2017
  1. Lets assume Celia at position 1
  2. Only way Paul could be next to celia if he is at position 2 or (n-1)
  3. Let's try to find range of "n"
  4. Since the ball passes to Paul after 6th pass, hence there can't be more than 5 guys in this round table i.e., total 7 guys
  5. Now we will make cases for n = 1,2,3,4,5 ( n \neq 0 because question says "with a number of other people")

Case 1: when n = 1 i.e., total 3 people

6 Passes - 1 > --> 2, 2 > --> 3, 3 > --> 1, 1 > --> 2, 2 > --> 3, 3 > --> 1

As we can see in the 6 passes that ball hasn't been to position 2 or 3. Hence no need to check for 9 passes and this ain't answer

Case 2: when n = 2 i.e., total 4 people

6 Passes - 1 > --> 2, 2 > --> 3, 3 > --> 4, 4 > --> 1, 1 > --> 2, 2 > --> 3

As we can see in the 6 passes that ball hasn't been to position 2 or 4. Hence no need to check for 9 passes and this ain't answer

Case 3: when n = 3 i.e., total 5 people

6 passes - 1 > --> 2, 2 > --> 3, 3 > --> 4, 4 > --> 5, 5 > --> 1, 1 > --> 2

As we can see in the 6 passes that ball is at position so maybe this can be the answer, let's check for 9 passes after this

9 Passes - 2 > --> 3, 3 > --> 4, 4 > --> 5, 5 > --> 1, 1 > --> 2, 2 > --> 3, 3 > --> 4, 4 > --> 5, 5 > --> 1

Now this is what we were looking for i.e., ball is to Paul position 2 at 6th pass and back to Celia position 1 at 9th pass

So, this is what we were finding for. I don't think its worthy anymore to solve for n = 4,5 XD

Yup, we just need to show that there exists a solution and we don't have to check for all the "remaining" cases...

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 11 months ago

Log in to reply

ohhhk, I shared how i solved...hehe

Akshay Gupta - 3 years, 11 months ago
David Hairston
Jul 2, 2017

The information in the problem may be extended to include the fact that Celia gets the ball returned to her after 15 passes. This fact alone enables only three possibilities for the number of people sitting around the round table. Either there are 3, 5 or 15 people, otherwise the ball cannot come back to Celia in the right number of moves. If there were 3 people sitting around the table then Celia would also get the ball after 6 passes, which is contradicted by the information given in the problem. If there were 15 people and Paul got the ball after 6 passes then he would not be sitting next to Celia. The answer may still be "yes" if the situation for 5 people satisfies all of the conditions given in the problem. For 5 people, with Paul sitting to the left of Celia then Celia would get the ball again after 5, 10 and 15 passes and Paul would get the ball after 1, 6 and 11 passes. In this arrangement (i.e. 5 people with Paul to the left of Celia), Paul gets the ball after 6 passes and Celia gets the ball after 15 passes, so the answer is yes!.

Additional people could have joined the game after it started, adding more "passes" to the rotation.

But how does show that the answer is "Yes?"

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 11 months ago

... so either the problem should say that there are a "fixed" number of people sitting around the table (which was assumed but unfortunately not stated) or in Kristin's situation Paul may be sitting on either side of Celia with magic numbers of people joining (or leaving) the game to make the stated facts (i.e. Paul gets the ball after 6 passes and Celia gets the ball after 9 more passes) true ...

David Hairston - 3 years, 11 months ago

Log in to reply

(which was assumed but unfortunately not stated

Why do you think it needs to be stated?

Pi Han Goh - 3 years, 11 months ago
Brian Dwyer
Jun 28, 2017

Five people around the table, Celia, Paul, P3,P4,P5. [key > = pass, {n} move number ] Celia > Paul {1} Paul > P1 {2} P1 > P2 {3} P2 > P3 {4} P3 > Celia {5} and Celia > Paul {6}. It continues round the table Paul > P1 {7} P1 > P2 {8} P2 > P3 {9} P3 > Celia {10} Celia > Paul {11} Paul > P1 {12} P1 > P2 {13} P2 > P3 {14} and finally P3 > Celia {15} . So Paul receives in on the sixth pass and Celia has it on the fifteenth pass.

0 pending reports

×

Problem Loading...

Note Loading...

Set Loading...