Bird Problem

Laurie is standing on the edge of a cliff at a height of h h above Orlando. Laurie runs horizontally away from Orlando at constant speed just as he throws a ball towards her. The ball reaches a height of 2 h , 2h, and then Laurie catches the ball as it falls.

What is the ratio of Laurie's speed to the ball's horizontal speed?

Details and Assumptions :

  • Treat the ball and each person as points.
  • There is downward gravitational acceleration g . g.
  • Neglect air resistance.


The answer is 0.8284.

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6 solutions

Albert Yiyi
Aug 19, 2018

since all parabolas are similar, the exact number isnt relevant, just the ratio. consider y = x 2 y=-x^2 , the problem is reduce to the ratio a : b a:b , which is 2 1 + 2 \frac{2}{1+\sqrt2} .

edit: thanks to Meredith Hughes for pointing out the y-coordinate should be -2

That's what I did too!

Nancy Rose - 2 years, 9 months ago

That's why we learn Math! Elegant and Clean Solution, same as mine.

Kelvin Hong - 2 years, 9 months ago

Sesh aapke khate me

Sanju Gupta - 2 years, 9 months ago

The y-coordinate should be -2 in your picture. Love this explanation!

Meredith Hughes - 2 years, 9 months ago

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oops, thanks for pointing out.

albert yiyi - 2 years, 9 months ago

Wow. I am astonished.

I myself solved by setting up the motion equations and finding the times of colisions. Whereas your solution is straight up genius

Tobias Görgen - 2 years, 9 months ago

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thanks, glad u like it.

albert yiyi - 2 years, 9 months ago

What an out-of-the-box solution! I was kind of amazed just how you can explain this with just a picture and a sentence. Well done!!

Victor NG - 2 years, 9 months ago

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thanks, glad u like it.

albert yiyi - 2 years, 9 months ago
David Vreken
Aug 20, 2018

The ball follows a path of a parabola that opens downward, which has a general form of y = a x 2 + b x + c y = -ax^2 + bx + c . If we let the maximum height of the ball be the origin, then b = 0 b = 0 and c = 0 c = 0 and the general form simplifies to y = a x 2 y = -ax^2 .

Laurie runs on a y y -value of h -h , which intersects the parabola when h = a x 2 -h = -ax^2 , or x = ± k x = \pm k for k = h a k = \sqrt{\frac{h}{a}} . The distance she runs is therefore d L = 2 k d_L = 2k , at a speed of s L = 2 k t s_L = \frac{2k}{t} over time t t .

Orlando is standing on a y y -value of 2 h -2h , which intersects the parabola when 2 h = a x 2 -2h = -ax^2 , or x = ± k 2 x = \pm k\sqrt{2} for k = h a k = \sqrt{\frac{h}{a}} . The horizontal distance of the ball is therefore d b = k + k 2 d_b = k + k\sqrt{2} , at a speed of s b = k + k 2 t s_b = \frac{k + k\sqrt{2}}{t} over time t t .

The ratio of Laurie's speed to the ball's horizontal speed is s L s b = 2 k t k + k 2 t \frac{s_L}{s_b} = \frac{\frac{2k}{t}}{\frac{k + k\sqrt{2}}{t}} = = 2 1 + 2 \frac{2}{1 + \sqrt{2}} = = 2 2 2 0.8284 2\sqrt{2} - 2 \approx \boxed{0.8284} .

0.8284, not 0.8285. That's a rounding error.

Roland van Vliembergen - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Thanks, I edited it. I suppose the solution should be updated, too.

David Vreken - 2 years, 9 months ago

If a ratio is of the form a:b, but it won't let me enter 1:0.8284 or any other ratio. Just a decimal number.

Richard Rowlands - 2 years, 9 months ago
Ameya Deshmukh
Aug 20, 2018
  • First consider the ball's vertical velocity, v y = 2 g 2 h = 2 g h v_{y}=\sqrt{2\cdot g\cdot 2h}=2\sqrt{gh}
  • Now consider the 2 times when the ball's vertical displacement is h h .
  • h = 2 g h t 1 2 g t 2 h=2\sqrt{gh}\cdot t-\frac{1}{2}gt^{2}
  • This gives, t = ( 2 ± 2 ) h g t=(2\pm \sqrt{2})\sqrt{\frac{h}{g}}
  • Now let the ball's horizontal velocity be v b v_{b} , so the distance moved by Laurie will be the difference of the horizontal distances moved by the ball during the 2 times, i.e, d = v b 2 2 h g d=v_{b}\cdot 2\sqrt{\frac{2h}{g}}
  • This is also the distance moved by Laurie during the entire time, thus d = v L ( 2 + 2 ) h g d=v_{L}\cdot (2+\sqrt{2})\sqrt{\frac{h}{g}}
  • Equating the 2 equations, v L v b = 2 2 2 + 2 = 2 1 + 2 = 0.8284271247.. \frac{v_{L}}{v_{b}}=\frac{2\sqrt{2}}{2+\sqrt{2}}=\frac{2}{1+\sqrt{2}}=0.8284271247..

funny, coz i did it exactly (i mean really exactly, step by step the very same way) as you described it:))) i know, it is a very simple kinematics.. the school basics of it, but i also see other people try to do it some OTHER ways (and by this fact i'm truly amazed)... i really wonder why they do so!?:)))))

Nik Gibson - 2 years, 9 months ago

Could you explain the first step? I don't get why there is another 2 inside the sqrt sign

Victor NG - 2 years, 9 months ago

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mgH = (mv^2)/2 - this is how you write the preservation of energy law, isn't it?... and in this particular puzzle H = 2h, according to the drawing. so one of those "2" is due to the kinetic energy and another one is due to the maximal altitude is equal to 2h according to the drawing

Nik Gibson - 2 years, 9 months ago
Abraham Zhang
Aug 23, 2018

The ball travels in a parabolic path. The distance from the turning point to Laurie is h \sqrt h , and the distance to Orlando is 2 h \sqrt {2h} . Therefore the ball travels ( 1 + 2 ) h (1+\sqrt 2)\sqrt h and Laurie travels 2 h 2\sqrt h . The ratio of Laurie's speed to the ball's speed is the ratio of the distances = 2 1 + 2 0.8284 =\frac{2}{1+\sqrt2}\approx 0.8284 .

First, we can see that the time that the ball spent to cover the second and the third part of the curve (over the cliff) is the same t t . Now, we can say that the speed at the end of the trajectory is the same as at the symmetrical point. V = 0 + g t = g t V=0+gt=gt . The time that the ball spent to climb the cliff is t 2 t_2 which could be obtained from:

h = 0 t + g t 2 2 \\h=0*t+\frac{gt_2}{2}

h = V t 2 + g t 2 2 2 = g t t 2 + g t 2 2 2 \\h=Vt_2+\frac{gt^2_2}{2}=gtt_2+\frac{gt^2_2}{2}

From that two equations we can find that

g t 2 2 = g t t 2 + g t 2 2 2 > t 2 = ( 2 1 ) t \\\frac{gt_2}{2}=gtt_2+\frac{gt^2_2}{2} -> t_2=(\sqrt{2}-1)t

Therefore, the ball spent 2 t 2t to cover the distance s s that Laurie covers by 2 t + t 2 = ( 1 + ( 2 ) ) t 2t+t_2=(1+\sqrt(2))t . Hence, we can find the relation

s = v b a l l 2 t \\s=v_{ball}*2t

s = v L a u r i e ( 2 + 1 ) t \\s=v_{Laurie}*(\sqrt{2}+1)t

Finally, we divide the second one by first:

1 = v L a u r i e ( 2 + 1 ) t v b a l l 2 t = v L a u r i e ( 2 + 1 ) v b a l l 2 \\1=\frac{v_{Laurie}*(\sqrt{2}+1)t}{v_{ball}*2t}=\frac{v_{Laurie}*(\sqrt{2}+1)}{v_{ball}*2}

v L a u r i e v b a l l = 2 2 + 1 \frac{v_{Laurie}}{v_{ball}}=\frac{2}{\sqrt{2}+1}

Vinod Kumar
Aug 24, 2018

It is equal to ratio of (t1-t2)/t1, where t1 and t2 are two times to reach half the height. The equation to be solved for t1 and t2 is the quadratic equation for achieving half height (h/2) when the ball is thrown upward under gravity.

(1/2)g(t^2) - √(2gh)(t) + (h/2)=0

{(t1-t2)/t1} = {2/(1+√2)} = 0.8284

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