Caged counting

Algebra Level 1

While caged up by the evil witch, Hansel and Gretel decide to count numbers to pass the time. Hansel starts from the number 502 and counts forward by 2's. Gretel starts from the number 999 and counts backward by 5's. If they both start at the same time, and count at the same rate, what number will they say at the same time?

Details and assumptions

Hansel counts off 502 , 504 , 506 , 502, 504, 506, \ldots
Gretel counts off 999 , 994 , 989 , 999, 994, 989, \ldots


The answer is 644.

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18 solutions

Mohith Manohara
Nov 3, 2013

Note that each can be written as an arithmetic sequence with the form t ( n ) = a n + b t(n)=an+b .

With a starting value of 502 and increasing by 2, the equation is t ( n ) = 2 n + 502 t(n)=2n+502

The other has a starting value of 999 and goes down by 5. This gives us t ( n ) = 5 x + 999 t(n)=-5x+999

Since we want them to count the same number, we want t ( n ) t(n) to be equal. So we can substitute one equation into the other.

2 x + 502 = 999 5 x 2x+502=999-5x

7 x = 497 7x=497

x = 71 x=71

Plugging in x x into one of the equations

t ( x ) = 2 ( 71 ) + 502 t(x)=2(71)+502

t ( x ) = 142 + 502 t(x)=142+502

t ( x ) = 644 t(x)=\boxed{644}

i understand, it's very difficult to answer that question right

Miyutu Conan - 7 years, 7 months ago

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Not a lot

Ewerton Cassiano - 7 years, 7 months ago

great

mrinmoy ghosh - 7 years, 7 months ago

Nice! :D

Daren Razon - 7 years, 7 months ago

now i know ! :)

Pangkoi Tallo - 7 years, 7 months ago

Great! :D

Marlon Delavin - 7 years, 7 months ago

Awwsome

Jaka PratAma - 7 years, 7 months ago

Whoops, towards the end I started using x's instead of n's. My bad.

Mohith Manohara - 7 years, 7 months ago

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I made the edits.

Can you define your variables clearly? It would be better to use distinct notation. For example, Hansel's sequence could be H ( n ) H(n) and Gretel's sequence could be G ( n ) G(n) , and we want to solve for H ( x ) = G ( x ) H(x) = G(x) .

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 7 months ago

okeee!!

Chongi Chin - 7 years, 6 months ago

great !

Wan Muliati - 7 years, 5 months ago
Marina Almeida
Nov 3, 2013

502 + 2x = 999 - 5x

nice 1

yasin nadaf - 7 years, 7 months ago

:)

Nazmus Salehin Nahid - 7 years, 7 months ago

(y)

Maaz Hussain - 7 years, 7 months ago

thanksssss to clear mine doubt

Manoj Kumar - 7 years, 7 months ago

awesome! a longer method is s1 = 502 + 2T s2 = 999 - 5T s1 = s2 -> T = 71 s1 = 502 + 2 71 = 644 s2 = 999 - 5 71 = 644

Saulo Carvalho - 7 years, 7 months ago
Gabie Maala
Nov 4, 2013

let x = the number of times 2 & 5 will be added and subtracted respectively, y = the number which Hansel and Gretel say at the same time

Given these two variables, simultaneous equations may be used.

Hansel: 502 + 2x = y

Gretel: 999 - 5x = y

Rearrange and add the two equations:

2x - y = -502

5x + y = 999


7x = 497

    x = 71

Now that the value of x is obtained, we can get the value of y by substituting to either of the 2 original equations:

502 + 2(71) = y

 y = 644

Great explanation :D

Abraham Ninian Ejin - 7 years, 7 months ago

nicely done !

Devesh Rai - 7 years, 7 months ago

(y)

Megawaty Munthe - 7 years, 7 months ago
Ojas Jain
Nov 4, 2013

BY ARITHMETIC PROGRESSION,nth TERM WII BE, 502+[n-1]2=999+[n-1] [-5] BY SOLVING, WE GET n=72 SUBSTITUTING, 502+71 2=644

Andre Yudhistika
Jan 5, 2014

its like physics

where displacement=first position+/- velocity times time

in this case displacement1=displacement2

hansel's velocity= 2 number/sec gretel's velocity=-5number/sec

p1+v1t=p2-v2t

502+2t=999-5t solve the equation you'll get t=71 second

insert t=71 to d=502+2t or d=999-5t you'll get d=644

It is arithmetic sequence.a is first term and d is tolerance.let An is the number they will say at the same time.Hansel:a=502 d=2.Gretel:a=999 d=-5[nagative because is backward] using the formula. An=a+[n-1][d] Substitute a and d into the formula.502+[n-1][2]=999+[n-1][-5] .Hence,n=72.Substitute n=72 by using a=502,d=2 or a=999,d=-5 can get An=644 \boxed{644}

Adarsh Rajput
Nov 3, 2013

nth term of first AP is equal to the nth term of second AP. By solving, we get n as 72. So the 72th term of both the APs will be the required number i.e. 644

You could write better your answer

Ewerton Cassiano - 7 years, 7 months ago

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Can you suggest an improvement to the answer? How could it be better written?

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 7 months ago

I agree with Ewerton C.

Devesh Rai - 7 years, 7 months ago

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Thank you

Ewerton Cassiano - 7 years, 7 months ago
Sourav Chaudhuri
Nov 5, 2013

This problem could be thought of a simple time and distance based problem where two people on the opposite ends of a town are moving towards each other, the towns being the numbers 502 and 999 respectively and the distance between them being 497. The number that they say together is analogous to the time when they meet but since both of them start at the same time, so every time they meet their distances are functions of their speed and here that ratio is 2:5. Thus the total distance is to be divided in 2:5 or 2/7th of 497 for hansel and 5/7th of 497 for gretel.

Meet Udeshi
Nov 5, 2013

We can assume that the count one number each second. Changing this rate will only affect the time after which they count that same number, not the number itself.

So we have 999-5 1(num/sec) t(in secs)=502+2 1 t

This gives t=71 secs, ie they will count the same no. after 71 seconds.

thus the number is 502+2 1 71=644

Ahmed Obaiedallah
Oct 31, 2015

Ok.

That's how I approached this problem H has to count 5 numbers to break the 10 barrier while G only needs two numbers and since they count at the same pace, that means 1 of Gretel's + 1 of Hansel's downs the total value of the deference between them by 7

(G=5)+(H=2)=7

g=5/7, h=2/7, where g & h are the ratios so the needed number N will be N H = h × ( 999 502 ) + 502 = 142 + 502 = 644 N_H=h×(999-502)+502=142+502=644

or

N G = 999 g × ( 999 502 ) = 999 355 = 644 N_G=999-g×(999-502)=999-355=644

And you can simply check that they both counted the same number of numbers by doing this

n H = 2 / 7 × 497 / 2 = 1 / 7 × 497 = 71 n_H=2/7×497/2=1/7×497=71

n G = 5 / 7 × 497 / 5 = 1 / 7 × 497 = 71 n_G=5/7×497/5=1/7×497=71

Shivam Modi
Oct 31, 2015

It's like relative motion

Leo Prakash
Mar 4, 2014

502 + 2x = 999 - 5x

The following condition is to be met when they have to say the same number. 502 + 2 n = 999 - 5 n. Solving the above, we get n = 71. Substituting this value in the above eqn, we ger 644 as an answer.

Anudeep Mathur
Dec 4, 2013

using ap a+(n-1)d=b+(n-1)e 502+(n-1)2=999+(n-1)-5 n=72 no.= 502+71*2=644

502 + n * 2 = 999 - 5 * n

n = 71

the magic number is 502 + 71 * 2 = 644

Mahvish Nadeem
Nov 10, 2013

Let this number = x

Hansel --> 502 + 2n = x Gretal --> 999 - 5n = x

502 + 2n = 999 - 5n 2n + 5n = 999 - 502 7n = 497 n = 71

x = 2*71 + 502 = 644

check: x = 999 - 5*71 = 644

Alan Babu
Nov 6, 2013

2n+502 = -5n+999 2n+5n = 999-502 7n = 497 n = 71

use excel functions one column for 502 and (=502+2), one clomun for 999 and (=999-5), find the row that has 2 same numbers. =)

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