There is a chain of uniform density on a table with negligible friction. The length of the entire chain is 1 m . Initially, one-third of the chain is hanging over the edge of the table. How long will it take the chain (in seconds) to slide off the table?
Take g = 9 . 8 m / s 2 .
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Looks good, Steven. I wasn't able to see the comment that you left for me on your previous post since the question was deleted, but no matter. As for this version, when I saw that you reposted I quickly pressed the "Reveal 1 solution" box without first putting in my answer! ... facepalm ... Oh well. It's a good question so I'll re-share it. :)
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You were right. I made a stupid mistake thinking that there was something wrong with my solution. The original problem had the correct answer, but nobody seemed to have solved it, so I thought that I forgot to subtract 1/3 from 1, without reviewing the equation ( ρ x ) g = ( ρ l ) d t d v .
This is my third post of the question.
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Oh, I see. Yes, I've posted a few questions that others, initially, weren't solving, which made me wonder if I had posted the correct answer, so I know how that feels. Anyway, now, if nobody is solving the question then you know that it's just because it's a tough question to solve; there aren't that many questions on this site that require an application of differential equations.
Hmm i got 0.55 and it was wrong :( I used substitution that: x/h = cosh(p) and integral become just dp :)
This could also be solved by energy conservation method which would indeed make it much more simplified.
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Can you present a solution with the conservation of energy?
I will solve it with conservation of energy. Let x denote the vertical coordinate of the chain's free end. As the chains free end is at distance x so the CoM of chain will be at a distance* x/2*.
So * M ( x ) = L M x *
and U ( x ) = − 2 L M x 2 g
As K i + U i = K f + U f
So 0 − 1 8 m g = 2 m v 2 + 2 − m x 2 g
or 2 m v 2 = 2 m x 2 g − 1 8 m g
or 2 m v 2 = 1 8 9 m x 2 g − m g
or 9 v 2 = ( 9 x 2 − 1 ) g
or d x d t = ( 9 x 2 − 1 ) g 9
or d t = ( 9 x 2 − 1 ) g 9 d x
or ∫ 0 t d t = ∫ 3 1 1 ( 9 x 2 − 1 ) g 9 d x
or t = g 3 ∫ 3 1 1 ( 9 x 2 − 1 ) 1 d x
or t = g 3 ∫ 3 1 1 9 ( x 2 − 9 1 ) 1 d x
or t = g 1 ∫ 3 1 1 ( x 2 − 9 1 ) 1 d x
or t = g 1 lo g ∣ ∣ ∣ x + x 2 − 9 1 ∣ ∣ ∣
or t = g 1 lo g ∣ ∣ ∣ 3 3 x + 9 x 2 − 1 ∣ ∣ ∣ where limits are - lower limit is 1/3 and upper limit is 1
or f r a c 1 g { lo g ∣ ∣ ∣ 3 3 + 2 2 ∣ ∣ ∣ − lo g ∣ ∣ 3 1 ∣ ∣ }
or g 1 { lo g ∣ 1 . 9 4 ∣ − lo g ∣ 0 . 3 3 ∣ }
or g 1 { 0 . 2 8 − ( − 0 . 4 8 ) } =0.243
By multiplying this 2.303 (to convert common logarithms into natural logarithms) we will get the answers.
2.303(0.243)=0.566 sec
In 3rd last line consider f r a c 1 g as g 1 .
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thanks @satvik pandey nice solution a one i could understand, you are so good at physics can you recommenced anything
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Thank you Mardokay. I am not so 'good' at physics I think I am little more than descent. :D
I recommend you to practice more and more question of physics as 'practice makes a man perfect'. :)
Please reply @satvik. In the energy conservation , what is m? If u took m=M/L, shouldn't 1/2mv² be1/2mv²x
This problem can be solved very easily with a little bit of knowledge of differential equations (or wolframalpha to do the job if you don't!).
If you do a bit of elementary mechanics (free-body diagram analysis) on the initial conditions given, the acceleration of the entire string at the beginning is 3 1 g , with the 3 1 coming from the fraction of the string hanging off the edge. With this, a nifty re-illustration of the problem can be made.
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So we have an extremely simple second order differential equation
x ′ ′ ( t ) = g x ( t )
with the initial conditions x ( 0 ) = 3 1 and x ′ ( 0 ) = 0 . The most general solution to the differential equations is
x ( t ) = c 1 e g t + c 2 e − g t
and plugging in the initial conditions gives us the solution,
x ( t ) = 6 1 ( e g t + e − g t )
Now we set x = 1 , and solve for t .
t ≈ . 5 6 3
Let l be the length of the chain, and x be the variable length hanging over the edge of the table.
initially x=1/3 m
By energy conservation
2 1 m v 2 = l m g x 2 − 9 m g
Putting l=1 m, velocity at an instant is given by
v = g x 2 − 9 g
Since v = d t d x
Putting value of v
d t d x = g x 2 − 9 g
g x 2 − 9 g d x = d t
Integrating LHS from x = 3 1 to x = 1 and RHS from t = 0 to t = t
∫ 3 1 1 x 2 − 9 1 d x = g ∫ 0 t d t
g [ l n ( x + x 2 − 9 1 ) ] 3 1 1 = t
Putting g=9.8
t = 9 . 8 l n ( 3 + 8 )
Therefore t = 0 . 5 5 7
It's really a beautyful problem.Keep uploading such problems
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The solution to this problem requires us to solve differential equations.
We begin with first principles (in Newtonian Mechanics). F n e t = a c c e l e r a t e d m a s s × a
Let l be the length of the chain, and x be the variable length hanging over the edge of the table. Since the mass is uniformly dense, we let ρ be the density. Hence,
( ρ x ) g = ( ρ l ) d t d v
Since d t d v = d x d v d t d x = v d x d v , we can rewrite the above equation as
v d x d v = l g x
Let h be the initial length hanging over the edge of the table. We solve the above differential equation when v = 0 (before sliding).
v 2 = l g ( x 2 − h 2 ) v = l g ( x 2 − h 2 )
Now we let v = d t d x and solve the new differential equation at x = h at the initial time t = 0 . (I searched up this integral.)
l n ( h x + x 2 − h 2 ) = l g t
The chain slides off the table at x = l so we get t = g l l n ( h l + l 2 − h 2 ) .
Plugging in the values h = 1 / 3 , l = 1 , g = 9 . 8 we get t = 0 . 5 6 3 s e c o n d s .