Concatenation = Product

Algebra Level 1

I am looking for a positive integer greater than 9 such that the product of all of its digits is equal to the integer itself:

a × b × c × × x × y × z = a b c x y z The product of the digits is equal to the integer itself. . \underbrace{{\color{#D61F06}a} \times {\color{#3D99F6}b} \times {\color{#20A900}c} \times \cdots \times {\color{#302B94}x} \times {\color{#69047E}y} \times {\color{#E81990}z} = \overline{{\color{#D61F06}a}{\color{#3D99F6}b}{\color{#20A900}c} \ldots {\color{#302B94}x}{\color{#69047E}y}{\color{#E81990}z}}}_{\text{The product of the digits is equal to the integer itself.}}.

Are there any positive integers that satisfy this condition?

Yes No

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14 solutions

Winston Choo
Oct 27, 2018

Let's try looking at the digits which only have 9's.

100 > 99 > 81

1000 > 999 > 729

10000 > 9999 > 6561

As the digits increase, the powers of 9 cannot catch up with the powers of 10.

And if we use other digits that are not 9, the multiplication result will decrease drastically.

So there are no such positive integers greater than 9.

I'm sorry, I did not understand this. Can you please explain why the power of 9 has to be able to catch up to the power of 10? Thank you

Sadid Ahmad Dhrubo - 2 years, 6 months ago

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Because when you take number like 999...9 it is only 1 less than power of 10 and we need a number whose product of digit should be equal to the number so power of 9 and power of 10 should be almost same

Mantra 93763 - 2 years ago

Sadid has a point. When you're a two-digit number, you only need to be higher than 10, not higher than 100.

Hao-Nhien Vu - 2 years, 6 months ago
Jordan Cahn
Oct 30, 2018

Consider the ( n + 1 ) (n+1) -digit integer N = a n a n 1 a 1 a 0 N=\overline{a_n a_{n-1}\cdots a_1 a_0} (where n > 0 n>0 and a n 0 a_n\neq 0 ). Note that 0 a i 9 0\leq a_i \leq 9 for all i i . N = i = 0 n 1 0 i a i 1 0 n a n > a n i = 0 n 1 a i = i = 0 n a i \begin{aligned} N &= \sum_{i=0}^n 10^i a_i \\ &\geq 10^n a_n \\ &> a_n\prod_{i=0}^{n-1} a_i \\ &= \prod_{i=0}^{n} a_i \end{aligned}

Thus, the product of the digits will always be strictly less than N N and the answer is no .

Positive integer greater than 9??

Akshay Krishna - 2 years, 7 months ago

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N N is that integer. Since n > 0 n>0 , N N must be at least two digits.

Jordan Cahn - 2 years, 6 months ago

This is interesting to read, can anyone provided a description to go with the notation? Thank you!

Robert H - 2 years, 6 months ago

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It's very useful notation! The basic idea is you put in every possible number for i i , starting with the number at the bottom and ending with the number at the top.

\displaystyle\sum is a Greek letter "sigma" for "sum." It means "add everything up". So i = 0 n 1 0 i a i \sum\limits_{i=0}^n 10^i a_i means 1 0 0 a 0 + 1 0 1 a 1 + + 1 0 n a n 10^0a_0 + 10^1 a_1 + \cdots + 10^n a_n . For a concrete example, i = 1 5 2 n = 2 1 + 2 2 + 2 3 + 2 4 + 2 5 = 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 = 62 \sum_{i=1}^5 2^n = 2^1 + 2^2 + 2^3 + 2^4 + 2^5 = 2 + 4 + 8 + 16 + 32 = 62

\displaystyle\prod is a Greek "pi" for "product." It works the same way, except you multiply instead of add. So i = 1 n a i \prod\limits_{i=1}^n a_i means a 1 × a 2 × × a n a_1 \times a_2 \times\cdots \times a_n . For a concrete example, i = 1 5 2 n = 2 1 × 2 2 × 2 3 × 2 4 × 2 5 = 2 15 = 32768 \prod_{i=1}^5 2^n = 2^1 \times 2^2 \times 2^3 \times 2^4 \times 2^5 = 2^{15} = 32768

The notation a n a n 1 a 0 \overline{a_na_{n-1}\cdots a_0} just means the number with those digits (to distinguish between a n a n 1 a 0 a_na_{n-1}\cdots a_0 , which might be read as a product). Below, is a annotated version of the main argument:

N = i = 0 n 1 0 i a i Multiply each digit by its place value, then add to get our number: 1 0 n a n + 1 0 n 1 a n 1 + + 1 0 0 a 0 1 0 n a n Each digit is 0 , so the sum on the line above is at least 1 0 n a n (in other words, N a n 00 0 ) > a n i = 0 n 1 a i Each digit is < 10 , so multiplying a 0 × a 1 × × a n 1 < 1 0 n = i = 0 n a i Including a n in our product gives us a 0 × a 1 × × a n and we’re done. \begin{aligned} N &= \sum_{i=0}^n 10^i a_i && \color{#3D99F6} \text{Multiply each digit by its place value, then add to get our number: }10^na_n + 10^{n-1}a_{n-1} + \cdots + 10^0a_0 \\ &\geq 10^n a_n && \color{#3D99F6} \text{Each digit is }\geq0\text{, so the sum on the line above is at least }10^na_n \text{ (in other words, } N\geq \overline{a_n00\cdots 0}\text{)}\\ &> a_n\prod_{i=0}^{n-1} a_i && \color{#3D99F6} \text{Each digit is }<10\text{, so multiplying }a_0\times a_1\times \cdots \times a_{n-1}<10^{n} \\ &= \prod_{i=0}^{n} a_i && \color{#3D99F6} \text{Including }a_n\text{ in our product gives us }a_0\times a_1\times \cdots \times a_n \text{ and we're done.} \end{aligned}

More broadly, this proof uses the common technique of systematically replacing pieces of an expression with things that we know are bigger/smaller than them. This makes the whole thing bigger/smaller, and is very useful for proving inequalities.

Hopefully this helped! I'm happy to answer any more questions.

Jordan Cahn - 2 years, 6 months ago

Thanks Jordan. I'm guessing that in the last step the = must be replaced by >

Right? In other words, N > a0 x a1 x a2 x ... x an

Rishi Jayaram - 2 years, 5 months ago

I use = because the last line is indeed equal to the one above it. Strung together it would look like N 1 0 n a n > a n a i = a i N\geq 10^n a_n > a_n \prod a_i = \prod a_i

Jordan Cahn - 2 years, 5 months ago
Pradeep Tripathi
Oct 30, 2018

Let us take digits be a and b such that :-

10a+b= ab.

By algebraic manipulation, b equals 10a/(a-1).

b is a digit so it must be from 0 to 9. Thus 10a/(a-1)€(0,9)

The LHS will be an integer only when a equals to 2,3 and 6 because factors of 10 are 1,2,5,10.

(a is also a digit so it cannot be 11.)

But for these values ,we get 20,15,12 as b that is not possible as b is a digit.

Thus, answer is NO.

You proved only that such two digits number does not exist

Blazej Fiderek - 2 years, 7 months ago

What about three digits or more?

Jaesung Lee - 2 years, 6 months ago

I still don’t get why 11 does not work. Greater than 9 and the product of both digits = 1.

Jake Wasden - 2 years, 6 months ago

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"... such that the product of all of its digits is equal to the integer itself". The product of 1 and 1 is 1, not 11.

Sylvester Mathiyalagan - 2 years, 6 months ago

For the people who want the extended multi-digit version, do your own 3. Consider: 100a+10b+c=a b c Then, follow the algebra: 100a+10b = a b c - c (subtract c from both sides) 100a+10b = c(a*b-1) (RHS: factor out common c) (100a+10b)/(ab-1) = c (divide both sides by ab-1)

First, accept that a and b are not both 1. That would never work anyway, because then, the product of the digits would just be c, not something a little over 100. So, that last division must be legal. a is not 0, as it is the leading digit of this mystery 3-digit number. b can't be 0, or the relationship we've derived here requires that c be negative, and that's now how digits work. So, a > 1 and b > 1. But now what?

This is still small enough to be resolved by calculator. Play with a and b a little, and you'll find that a=b=9 minimizes the value of c. Unfortunately, if a=b=9, we have (900+90)/(9*9-1)=990/80 > 10, which means that c is not a digit. And if a or b is less than 9, then the computed value of c is even greater than 990/80, which means it's still not a digit.

So, your mystery number can't be 3 digits, either.

And my guess is that the analogous argument leads to the same conclusion no matter how many digits you include in your number. I just played with it for 4 digits as well. If the number is 1000a+100b+10c+d ( =abcd ), then (1000a+100b+10c)/(abc-1)=d, but a=b=c=9 minimizes the units "digit" again, and 9990/728 > 10, which means d is not a digit, in violation of expectations.

Michael McGinnis - 2 years, 6 months ago

The most significant digit times the product of the other single-digit multipliers cannot produce the most significant digit times its power of 10 multiplier. Therefore the answer is NO.

This one explains why the top answer makes sense

Jeremy Kasey - 1 year, 5 months ago
Zoe Codrington
Nov 14, 2018

When we get to the ‘tens’(11,10,12, ect), we get 1 x. With the twenties, we get 2 x. The 30s are 3 x. But 30 is 3x10. This also holds with hundreds:1 x*y.This has no effect, and with 200s, we are already above.

Gabor Koranyi
Nov 13, 2018

Let this integer be 'N', have 'k' digits and the first digit 'a'. N = a×10^(n-1) + b×10^(n-2) + ... . None of the digits can be '0' and all of them are <10. The product of the digits is obviously < a×10(n-1), which is < N always. Answer is no.

Jam M
Nov 13, 2018

Suppose N > 9 N > 9 has n n digits - say N = a n a n 1 a 2 a 1 N = a_n a_{n-1} \cdots a_2 a_1 . Then the product of the digits is:

( a n ) ( a n 1 ) ( a 2 ) ( a 1 ) = ( ( a n 1 ) ( a 2 ) ( a 1 ) ) a n 9 n 1 a n (a_n)(a_{n-1}) \cdots (a_2)(a_1) = ((a_{n-1}) \cdots (a_2)(a_1))a_n \leq 9^{n-1} a_n since a i 9 a_i \leq 9 for i = 1 , , n 1 i = 1, \cdots, n-1

In turn, 9 n 1 a n < 1 0 n 1 a n + 1 0 n 2 a n 1 + + 10 a 2 + a 1 = N 9^{n-1} a_n < 10^{n-1} a_n + 10^{n-2} a_{n-1} + \cdots + 10 a_2 + a_1 = N

Therefore, a positive integer can never equal the product of its digits.

Paul Cockburn
Nov 13, 2018

To prove there is no such two digit number, assume a b = 10 a + b ab = 10a + b then a = b / ( b 10 ) a = b/(b-10)

Substituting b = 1 to 9 gives a a as a negative number.

Expanding this to n+1 digits, let a = 1 to 9 and b = an integer between 1 and ( 1 0 n 1 ) (10^{n}-1) and let m be the product of all the digits of b. Hence m 9 n m \leq 9^{n}

Assume a m = 1 0 n a + b am = 10^{n}a + b , then a = b / ( m 1 0 n ) a = b/(m-10^{n}) but the denominator m 1 0 n m-10^{n} is negative, so again a a comes out as a negative number.

To see this more clearly take the example n=3:

Let a = 1 to 9 and b = an integer between 1 and 999 and let m be the product of all the digits of b. Hence m 9 3 = 729 m \leq 9^{3} = 729

Assume a m = 1000 a + b am = 1000a + b , then a = b / ( m 1000 ) a = b/(m-1000) but the denominator m 1000 m-1000 is negative, so again a a comes out as a negative number.

Mathew Smith
Nov 12, 2018

Let there be an n n digit integer N > 9 N > 9 which is equal to the product of its digits x 1 , x 2 , . . . x n {x_1, x_2, ... x_n} where x n x_n is the right most digit:

N = i = 1 n x i N = \prod_{i=1}^{n} x_i

It must be the case that N = x n M N = x_n \cdot M where M = i = 1 n 1 x i M = \prod_{i=1}^{n-1} x_i by the transitive property of multiplication.

It must also be the case that N = 10 M + x n N = 10 \cdot M + x_n by the properties of the base 10 counting system, which is a contradiction.

It follows that no positive integer greater than 9 can exist which is equal to the product of its digits.

K T
Nov 12, 2018

With 2 digits a and b: ab=10a+b => a(b-10)=b. but b-10 <0 so no solution other than a=b=0.

With 3 digits: abc=100a+10b+c => a(bc-100)=10b+c. Same reasoning, since bc<100: the only solution has a=0.

This reasoning holds for any higher number of digits, so: No.

Jeffrey H.
Nov 12, 2018

Let there be n n digits in the integer we are trying to find. Since each digit is less than 10 10 , the product of the digits will always be less than 1 0 n 10^n , which is less than or equal to the number itself.

The question above is a way of asking whether Concatenation of intetgers equals Product of those integers.

Concatenation of two integers. a a and. b b is given as,

a b = a b a||b = ab , not. a × b a\times b where, || is the symbol of Concatenation.

Example, 2 3 = 23 2 × 3 2||3 = 23 \neq 2\times 3

Now, a b = a . β [ l o g β b ] + 1 \boxed{a||b = a.β^{[log_β b]+1}} , is the general formula for Concatenation.

We need, a b = a × b , a||b = a\times b, which is only possible if b b doesnt exist, i.e, only possible for single digit integers, which are already excluded.

For more than 1 digit integers, a b c . . . . . > a × b × c . . . . . . \boxed{a||b||c..... >a\times b\times c...... } Always.

So, A N S W E R : N O ANSWER:\boxed{NO}

Ervyn Manuyag
Nov 11, 2018

I tried every number greater than 9 and nothing works

That must have taken you a while.

Jordan Cahn - 2 years, 7 months ago
N Kansara
Nov 11, 2018

Let the Number a 1 a 2 a 3 . . . . . a n a_1a_2a_3.....a_n be a solution to the given condition. So

1 0 n 1 a 1 + 1 0 n 2 a 2 + . . . . + a n = a 1 × a 2 × . . . . × a n 10^{n-1}a_1 + 10^{n-2}a_2 + .... + a_n = a_1 × a_2 × .... × a_n

On rearranging the equation we get

1 0 n 2 a 2 + . . . . + a n = a 1 × ( a 2 × . . . . × a n 1 0 n 1 ) 10^{n-2}a_2 + .... + a_n = a_1 ×(a_2 × .... × a_n - 10^{n-1})

Since a i < 10 a_i < 10 we get

a 2 × . . . . × a n < 1 0 n 1 a_2 × .... × a_n < 10^{n-1}

Therefore,

a 2 × . . . . × a n 1 0 n 1 < 0 a_2 × .... × a_n - 10^{n-1} < 0

So here our RHS becomes negative but our LHS is positive So equality can not occur for a number which is not a single digit number

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