Determining the area based on side lengths only?

Geometry Level 2

If we know all 4 side lengths of a quadrilateral, can we determine the area of the quadrilateral?


Note : Heron's formula allows one to determine the area of a triangle given the 3 side lengths.

Yes No

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11 solutions

David Vreken
Sep 10, 2018

A given set of side lengths of a quadrilateral can give different areas depending on the angles. For example, the area of a rectangle is greater than the area of a non-right parallelogram with the same sides:

Therefore, even if we know all the side lengths of a quadrilateral, we cannot determine the area of the quadrilateral.

Yup, that's what I did, but with a square, instead of a rectangle. Thank you for your solution!

Pi Han Goh - 2 years, 9 months ago

One of the things I love about mathematics is how you can derive a conclusion in many different ways, and both of our solutions exemplify this. Yours is just more simple; nice solution!

Blan Morrison - 2 years, 9 months ago

Can not we use rigth triangles to calculate angles?

Humberto Cubides - 2 years, 8 months ago

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In addition to the 4 side lengths, we would need at least one more angle to solve all the other angles.

David Vreken - 2 years, 8 months ago

The question referred to area of TRIANGLES

Edith Dubiner - 2 years, 8 months ago

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No. It explicitly refers to "the area of the quadrilateral."

Blan Morrison - 2 years, 8 months ago

I'm reminded of when my seventh grade teacher proved to me that the area of a parallelogram could be less than the area of a rectangle with the same length sides by taking the top of a match box, and squishing it to make different size parallelograms. Then she showed me the limiting case where the parallelogram could be squished to area of zero.

Kermit Rose - 2 years, 8 months ago

How about we divide the quadrilateral into 2 triangles. The hypotenuse would be the divider. We can obtain the hypotenuse with h^2=a^2+b^2 and we now "a" and "b". Then we add the area of both triangles. PD: the triangles doesn't have to be equals, given that the sides of quadrilateral can be all differents. But in any quadrilateral if you join 2 opposite vertices, you get 2 triangles

Anlev Joel - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Pythagorean's Theoream is only true for right triangles, so this method does not work if you don't know any of the angles.

David Vreken - 2 years, 8 months ago

Jesus Christ say it’s an angled quadrilateral thn and obv the answer wld b different a mean the pic shows a normal quadrilateral 😡

Richard B - 2 years, 8 months ago

You can just divide it into triangles and add the respective areas. This is nonsense.

Billy Mason - 2 years, 8 months ago

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You can't find the area of a triangle if you only know two of its sides.

David Vreken - 2 years, 8 months ago

wondering if you cut it into two triangles at the corners. Guess you wouldn't know the angles.

The Lancer - 2 years, 8 months ago

I was thinking in 3d.. and with a rectangle only

Skullslide Gaming - 2 years, 8 months ago

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I was thinking the same thing.

OhMyGosh!! Atkins - 2 years, 8 months ago

I don’t understand...i think we can calculate it because we juste have to separate the shape in two triangles , calculate the area of both triangles and add them no?

Ambroise Marche - 2 years, 5 months ago

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All you would know of the two triangles are two of its sides, but you would need to know either the third side or an angle to calculate the area of these triangles.

David Vreken - 2 years, 5 months ago
Blan Morrison
Sep 10, 2018

Relevant wiki: Quadrilateral Classification

First, since there is no quadrilateral version of Heron's formula, I conjectured that the correct answer is no. In order to prove this, we can use the fact that there are two types of quadrilaterals: concave and convex.

First, let us begin with a convex kite A B C D ABCD :

Draw a red dotted line along B D BD ; this will be helpful in a moment. Now, reflect A B D \triangle ABD over B D BD :

Notice that we still have the same side lengths as before, just in a different position. Note that this new concave quadrilateral has a different area:

A A B C D = A A B C D 2 A A B D A'_{ABCD}=A_{ABCD}-2A_{\triangle ABD}

Therefore, my conjecture is correct; the correct answer is no .

Very visually appealing. Thanks for your easy-to-understand solution!

Pi Han Goh - 2 years, 9 months ago

Why does it have to be 2* Area of ∆ABD?

Ishmael Motlhale - 2 years, 8 months ago

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You subtract the original triangle off, and then you cut out that same triangle from the kite. Therefore, you take away 2 copies of A B D \triangle ABD .

Blan Morrison - 2 years, 8 months ago

I had almost identical thinking to your visual for a counter example. Nice visual!

David Richner - 2 years, 8 months ago
Naren Bhandari
Sep 12, 2018

This isnot how I solve the problem however, I wish to post this as my alternative solution.

Bretschneinder's generalizes the Brahmagupta's formula for the area of cyclic qaudrilateral and which in turn generalized the Hero's formula for area of triangle which is as follow. K 2 = ( s w ) ( s x ) ( s y ) ( s z ) w x y z cos 2 ( sum of opp. angles of quad 2 ) K^2= (s-w)(s-x)(s-y)(s-z) - wxyz\cos ^2\left(\frac{\text{sum of opp. angles of quad}}{2}\right) To calculate the area we are in need to opposite angles of qaudrilateral which implies we cannot find the area.

Note: In case of maximum area the answer is yes .

Yup, that's how I formulated this question! Thanks for this alternative solution

Pi Han Goh - 2 years, 9 months ago

We cannot find the area of the quadrilateral, though, for an actual case, we could draw a diagonal and measure its lenght. Then by applying Heron formula to each triangle we could find an aproximate result. It is important to draw at scale

Rene Valdes Asiain - 2 years, 8 months ago

But what about a non cyclic quadrilateral?

SHASHANK KUMAR SINGH - 2 years, 8 months ago

I had the same in my mind. So that model answer is not a model answer

NIKIL PUJARI - 2 years, 8 months ago
Jaafer Hosni
Sep 21, 2018

If you calculate the area of a square and a regular lozenge with a side length 1 then the area of the square : a^2 = 1 and the area of the lozenge : sin(π\3)= 3 2 \frac { \sqrt { 3 } }{ 2 }

Nice solution.

Hani Haddad - 2 years, 8 months ago

I didn't know lozenge is an actual word. Thank you for finding a simple counterexample.

Pi Han Goh - 2 years, 8 months ago
Harish Rajesh
Sep 21, 2018

Atleast one angle is needed additionally to determine the area of a quadrilateral with known sides.

Sanjay Mishra
Sep 21, 2018

The length of the diagonal will be used in Heron's formulae. The problem is despite the two triangles formed due to a diagonal we will not be able to get rid of the diagonal value.

Second issue is that due to concave or convex nature of quadrilateral it is very difficult as for concave the diagonal could be outside the closed figure and calculation of area will be wrong. With these two points I concluded that the ans is no.

Malcolm Lawson
Sep 18, 2018

If a = c and b= d. A quadrilateral could be constructed in which the opposite angles approach 0 and the area will also approach 0. The same side lengths could produce an area of a x b. This it is not possible to calculate the area.

Tochi Obudulu
Sep 21, 2018

The diamond above must have area 4 by symmetry, but Pythagoras' theorem gives x 2 = 2 2 + 1 2 = 5 x^2 = 2^2 + 1^2 = 5 . So the square with the same side length has a different area.

Richard Desper
Sep 19, 2018

Dislike this phrasing. There is nothing about knowing the four side lengths of a quadrilateral that would prevent one from being able to compute the area, should more information also be known. Now it's certainly true that the four side lengths in isolation would not be sufficient to calculate the area of a quadrilateral. Indeed, the side lengths of a rhombus would not be sufficient. Given any side length s s we can find a rhombus of any area A A satisfying 0 < A s 2 0 < A \leq s^2 .

Spriha Basir
Sep 19, 2018

By dividing the quadilateral into two triangles....

Edwin Gray
Sep 17, 2018

The area may be calculated if the vertices of the quadrilateral lie on the circumference of a circle by Brahmagupta's formula, which is a generalization of Herron's formula; to wit: A= sqrt(s(s - a)(s _ b)(s - c)), where s = (p/2)(a + b + c). Ed Gray

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