Double square

Algebra Level 3

{ a = 4 5 a b = 4 + 5 b c = 4 5 + c d = 4 + 5 + d \begin{cases} a=\sqrt{4-\sqrt{5-a}} \\ b=\sqrt{4+\sqrt{5-b}} \\ c=\sqrt{4-\sqrt{5+c}} \\ d=\sqrt{4+\sqrt{5+d}} \end{cases}

Find the product a b c d . abcd.


Hint: You don't need to find any of the individual variables!


The answer is 11.

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2 solutions

Richard Desper
Jul 31, 2017

Starting along the lines of Paola's soluion: Squaring and re-arranging, and re-squaring the four equations gives us:

a 4 8 a 2 + a + 11 = 0 a^4 -8a^2 + a + 11 = 0

b 4 8 b 2 + b + 11 = 0 b^4 -8b^2 + b + 11 = 0

c 4 8 c 2 c + 11 = 0 c^4 -8c^2 - c + 11 = 0

d 4 8 d 2 d + 11 = 0 d^4 -8d^2 -d + 11 = 0

Thus the four roots of f ( x ) = x 4 8 x 2 + x + 11 = 0 f(x) = x^4 - 8x^2 +x + 11 = 0 are the values a , b , c , a, b, -c, and d -d . The product of the four roots is the constant term of the polynomial, i.e.

11 = a b ( c ) ( d ) = a b c d 11 = ab(-c)(-d) = abcd

Moderator note:

The statement "the product of the four roots is the constant term of the polynomial" is based off of Vieta's Formula and is true in particular here because the degree of the polynomial is even and leading coefficient is 1. In general, if n n is the degree of a polynomial, the leading coefficient is a , a, and the constant term is z , z, the product of the roots in the polynomial is ( 1 ) n z a . (-1)^n \frac{z}{a} .

Very clever!

Eli Ross Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago

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Yes it's true

D K - 2 years, 10 months ago

Great! That's a nice way to explain the pairing of roots in Paola's solution.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago

Doesn't it remain to check that such real numbers indeed exist?

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 10 months ago

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Yes indeed!

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago
Paola Ramírez
Jul 19, 2017

Raising to square twice each equality is got it:

a 4 8 a 2 + a + 11 = 0 a^4-8a^2+a+11=0

b 4 8 b 2 + b + 11 = 0 b^4-8b^2+b+11=0

c 4 8 c 2 c + 11 = 0 c^4-8c^2-c+11=0

d 4 8 d 2 d + 11 = 0 d^4-8d^2-d+11=0

Raising again to square each of this equalities is obtained expressions like x 8 16 x 6 + 86 x 4 177 x 2 + 121 = 0 x^8-16x^6+86x^4-177x^2+121=0 for a , b , c a,b,c and d d . Let be y = x 2 y=x^2 , the last expression is y 4 + 16 y 3 + 86 y 2 177 y + 121 = 0 y^4+16y^3+86y^2-177y+121=0 this expression has four complex roots y 1 , y 2 , y 3 y_1,y_2,y_3 and y 4 y_4 so that y 1 y 2 y 3 y 4 = 121 y_1y_2y_3y_4=121 . As a 2 b 2 c 2 d 2 = y 1 y 2 y 3 y 4 a b c d = 121 = 11 a^2b^2c^2d^2=y_1y_2y_3y_4 \Rightarrow abcd=\sqrt{121}=11

The 8th degree equation has 8 roots, and you don't know which 4 of the 8 roots your a, b, c, d correspond to. So you can't be sure that abcd = 11.

In other words, the 8 roots multiply to 121. But we're not sure if 4 of them multiply to 11.

Hao-Nhien Vu - 3 years, 10 months ago

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Indeed. There needs to be some justification of how the roots pair up (e.g. see my comment below), in order to conclude that we have the 4 that multiply to 11.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago

Can you elaborate on "Raising again to square each of this equalities is obtained expressions"?

IE ( a 4 8 a 2 + a + 11 ) 2 (a^4 - 8a^2 + a + 11)^2 does not have that given form.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago

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Let me check it again

Paola Ramírez - 3 years, 10 months ago

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What is actually happening, is that the 4 variables are positive numbers that satisfy x 2 4 = ± 5 ± x x^2 - 4 = \pm \sqrt{ 5 \pm x } .

By squaring this, we get ( x 2 4 ) 2 = 5 ± x x 4 8 x 2 + 11 = ± x (x^2 - 4 )^2 = 5 \pm x \Rightarrow x^4 - 8 x^2 + 11 = \pm x . Now, squaring both sides again, we get ( x 4 8 x 2 + 11 ) 2 = x 2 ( x^4 - 8x^2 + 11)^2 = x^2 . This is the final expression x 8 16 x 6 + 86 x 4 177 x 2 + 121 = 0 x^8 - 16x^6 + 86x^4 - 177x^2 + 121 = 0 that you get.

By repeated squaring, we ended up introducing extraneous roots, and have to account for them.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 10 months ago

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