Electric Angle

Note: the angles in the diagram are not drawn to scale. Note: the angles in the diagram are not drawn to scale.

An electric field line leaves a positive charge at an angle of 6 0 60^{\circ} and enters a negative charge at an angle of θ \theta . These angles are measured from the straight line joining the two charges.

The magnitude of the positive charge is 4 times the magnitude of the negative charge.

What is θ ? \theta?

6 0 60^{\circ} 9 0 90^{\circ} 12 0 120^{\circ} 18 0 180^{\circ}

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4 solutions

Digvijay Singh
Jan 26, 2018

In the figure above, A is a circular region, which is also the base of cones with apex angles 2 α and 2 β . Let Ω α and Ω β be the solid angles subtended by the region A on the charges + Q 1 and Q 2 respectively. Then, (Flux entering the region A) = ϕ α = (Flux leaving the region A) = ϕ β Ω α 4 π Q 1 ϵ 0 = Ω β 4 π Q 2 ϵ 0 2 π ( 1 cos α ) 4 π Q 1 ϵ 0 = 2 π ( 1 cos β ) 4 π Q 2 ϵ 0 1 cos α 1 cos β = Q 2 Q 1 Putting Q 1 = 4 , Q 2 = 1 , α = 6 0 , β = θ 1 cos 6 0 1 cos θ = 1 4 cos θ = 1 θ = 18 0 \large \begin{aligned} & \text{In the figure above, } '\text{A}' \text{ is a circular region, which is also the base of cones with apex angles } 2{\color{#3D99F6}\alpha} \text{ and } 2{\color{#D61F06}\beta}. \\ & \text{Let } {\color{#3D99F6}\Omega_\alpha} \text{ and } {\color{#D61F06}\Omega_\beta} \text{ be the solid angles subtended by the region A on the charges } {\color{#3D99F6} +Q_1} \text{ and } {\color{#D61F06} -Q_2} \text{ respectively. Then,} \\ & \text{(Flux entering the region A)}={\color{#3D99F6} \phi_\alpha} = \text{(Flux leaving the region A)}={\color{#D61F06} \phi_\beta} \\ & \implies \dfrac{{\color{#3D99F6}\Omega_\alpha}}{4\pi}\dfrac{\color{#3D99F6} Q_1}{\epsilon_0}=\dfrac{{\color{#D61F06}\Omega_\beta}}{4\pi}\dfrac{\color{#D61F06}Q_2}{\epsilon_0} \\ & \implies \dfrac{2\pi(1-\cos{\color{#3D99F6} \alpha})}{4\pi}\dfrac{\color{#3D99F6} Q_1}{\epsilon_0}=\dfrac{2\pi(1-\cos{\color{#D61F06} \beta})}{4\pi}\dfrac{\color{#D61F06} Q_2}{\epsilon_0} \\ & \implies \boxed{\dfrac{1-\cos{\color{#3D99F6} \alpha}}{1-\cos{\color{#D61F06} \beta}}=\dfrac{\color{#D61F06} Q_2}{\color{#3D99F6} Q_1}} \\ & \text{Putting } Q_1=4, Q_2=1, \alpha=60^{\circ}, \beta=\theta \\ & \implies \dfrac{1-\cos{60^{\circ}}}{1-\cos{\theta}}=\dfrac{1}{4} \\ & \implies \cos{\theta}=-1 \implies \boxed{\theta=180^{\circ}} \end{aligned}


Notes:

  • To see why Ω = 2 π ( 1 cos θ ) \Omega=2\pi(1-\cos{\theta}) , click here .

  • The solid angle of a sphere measured from any point in its interior is 4 π sr 4\pi\text{ sr} .

  • The flux through a sphere which has charge Q Q inside it, is Q / ϵ 0 Q/\epsilon_0 . See Gauss Law .

  • ϵ 0 \epsilon_0 is permittivity of free space .

@Digvijay Singh does your argument work if the circle is so far away from the charge like in the picture? I think some clarity on what the regions A ( ϕ i ) A(\phi_i) are would help people understand your argument.

Josh Silverman Staff - 3 years, 4 months ago

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I think we don't need to draw the circle, a simple argument that the field line emitted at an angle α \alpha from the positive charge enters at an angle β \beta in the negative charge. Thus, all the field lines that are emitted within the solid angle 2 π ( 1 cos α ) 2 \pi (1 - \cos \alpha) will end up entering the negative charge within the solid angle 2 π ( 1 cos β ) 2 \pi (1- \cos \beta) .

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 4 months ago

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I don't see the purpose of the circle A A as it's described here. I think this approach is clearer if you motivate it by looking at the region in the neighborhood of one charge or the other, in that case flux lines come out uniformly in all directions and you can cleanly calculate flux as ( field due to Q i ) × ( area of spherical cap of angle θ i ) . \left(\textrm{field due to }Q_i\right)\times\left(\textrm{area of spherical cap of angle } \theta_i\right).

Josh Silverman Staff - 3 years, 4 months ago

...maybe I'm just tired, but this does NOT look like an intermediate level problem... >_0

Adam Wunker - 3 years, 4 months ago

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It's beyond me as well. I know nothing about charges and such but just looking at the diagram if Beta gets to 180 deg. something had to go backwards somewhere. Sorry for my ignorance.

Jeff Hunt - 3 years, 4 months ago

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Yes, it comes into the negative charge from behind. You can use this tool to visualize the field: http://www.flashphysics.org/electricField.html

Jakub Zahumensky - 3 years, 2 months ago

+1 doesn’t feel intermediate because it was not preceded by simpler beginner problems (at least not for me, clicking through to this section from the daily email)

A Former Brilliant Member - 3 years, 4 months ago

@Digvijay Singh are u kV teacher

Riya Verma - 3 years, 4 months ago

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no, i'm a student. im 17 years old.

Digvijay Singh - 3 years, 4 months ago

Why should flux entering A be equal to flux leaving A ?

Seema Gupta - 3 years, 4 months ago

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Because electric field lines are continuous.

Digvijay Singh - 3 years, 4 months ago

it's like a water pipe - what goes in must come out

Jakub Zahumensky - 3 years, 2 months ago

How do you calculate $\phi {\alpha}$ and $\phi {\beta}$? The electric field is not uniform on the flat surface $A$.

Dalin Boriçi - 3 years, 3 months ago

This might sound weird but the diagram helped me visualise it, with the magnitude being 4 times as large, the negative should resist, so the charge hast to take the most efficient path to transfer. I'm very good and fast with simple math, but this level I just cant comprehend. I just seem to have this way of visualising the concept of a physical action that helps me get quite a few of these right. I can't decide if it's satisfying or annoying.

Matthew Hellwig - 3 years, 3 months ago

How is this a basic problem?

Danny Robinson - 3 years, 3 months ago
Mark Hennings
Jan 29, 2018

Standard bookwork tells us that the equation of a field-line between the two charges is given by the equation 4 q cos θ 1 q cos θ 2 = c 4q\cos\theta_1 - q\cos\theta_2 = c where θ 1 \theta_1 is the angle formed by the line from a point on the field line to the charge 4 q 4q and the line joining the charges, and θ 2 \theta_2 is the angle formed by the line from a point on the field line to the charge q -q and the line joining the charges.

When the field-line enters the 4 q 4q charge, we that θ 1 = 6 0 \theta_1 = 60^\circ and θ 2 = 18 0 \theta_2 = 180^\circ . Thus c = 3 q c = 3q . When the field-line enters the other charge, we have θ 1 = 0 \theta_1 = 0^\circ , and so 4 q q cos θ 2 = 3 q 4q - q\cos\theta_2 = 3q . Thus cos θ 2 = 1 \cos\theta_2 = 1 , and hence θ 2 = 0 \theta_2 = 0^\circ , and hence θ = 18 0 \theta = \boxed{180^\circ} .

One person's standard bookwork is another person's exhilarating breakthrough...

Josh Silverman Staff - 3 years, 4 months ago

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I set out the bookwork a number of years ago here , and have referred to it in a number of problems since...

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 4 months ago

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It is still as beautiful as the last time I read it!

Josh Silverman Staff - 3 years, 4 months ago

Can you please give me some material to this topic ?

Marek Jankola - 3 years, 4 months ago

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If you look at my reply to Josh, you will find a link to a very old question. I proved how to derive formulae like this one there...

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 4 months ago
Andrew Normand
Feb 4, 2018

The flux density emerging from the positive charge is 4 times the flux density entering the negative charge. Integrating the solid angle made by all angles less than 60 degrees out of the positive charge gives an area of pi, or one quarter of a sphere. Thus all flux lines in this region enter the negative charge, while all others do not. The line at 60 degrees from the axis must therefore enter the negative charge at the most distant possible point - 180 degrees

Very simple and captures the essence of the result.

Josh Silverman Staff - 3 years, 3 months ago

thanks for the visualisation

Danny Robinson - 3 years, 2 months ago
Ed Sirett
Feb 3, 2018

I tried a numerical approach. I.e. plotting the path whose direction is determined by the field strength. This led me to a discovery (obvious when known) then there is a region with almost no net field on the right of -Q and the same distance from -Q as the spatial separation of the charges (and twice that from +4Q). Essentially if α = 6 0 o ϵ \alpha = 60^o - \epsilon the field line approaches from the right with β < 180 \beta < 180 . If α = 6 0 o + ϵ \alpha = 60^o+\epsilon then the field line does not travel to -Q. Therefore if α = 6 0 o \alpha = 60^o then the field line approaches with β = 18 0 o \beta = \boxed{180^o}

It should be noted that d β d α \frac{d\beta}{d\alpha} is immense in the region where α 6 0 o \alpha \approx 60^o

Thanks to Digvijay Singh, whilst I did not solve this with your elegance or rigour. I did gain an insight into what happens to the field lines in regions that are almost nulled out.

I was trying to visualize this with electric field line diagrams. I got it wrong by figuring there must be 2 times as many field lines from +4Q as from -Q. The solution implies 3 times as many field lines so I'm searching for an intuitive reason.

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/Class/estatics/u8l4c16.gif

Jeremy Galvagni - 3 years, 4 months ago

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In my understanding there are an uncountable number of field lines between the two charges. A field line is the path whose tangent vector at every point is the net electric field at that point. All field lines depart radially. All field lines that start with an angle between -60º and +60º at +4Q will end at -Q the others will tend to zero magnitude at large distances. HTH

Ed Sirett - 3 years, 4 months ago

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