Factorial equations

Find the sum of all positive integers c c such that for some positive integers a a and b b { a ! b ! = c ! a + b = c + 3. \begin{cases} a!\cdot b! =c!\\ a+b=c+3. \end{cases}


The answer is 34.

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3 solutions

Matt McNabb
Sep 3, 2013

Assume w.l.o.g. that a b a \le b . Combining the two conditions gives: a ! = ( a + ( b 3 ) ) ! b ! = ( b + 1 ) ( b + 2 ) . . . . ( b + ( a 3 ) ) \begin{aligned} a! &= {(a + (b-3))! \over b!} \\ &= (b+1)(b+2)....(b+(a-3)) \end{aligned}

We see that ( a 3 ) (a-3) must be at least 1 1 (otherwise this product has no terms). The first few potential solutions are, for clarity: 4 ! = ( b + 1 ) 5 ! = ( b + 1 ) ( b + 2 ) 6 ! = ( b + 1 ) ( b + 2 ) ( b + 3 ) 7 ! = ( b + 1 ) ( b + 2 ) ( b + 3 ) ( b + 4 ) 8 ! = ( b + 1 ) ( b + 2 ) ( b + 3 ) ( b + 4 ) ( b + 5 ) \begin{aligned} 4! &= (b+1) \\ 5! &= (b+1)(b+2) \\ 6! &= (b+1)(b+2)(b+3) \\ 7! &= (b+1)(b+2)(b+3)(b+4) \\ 8! &= (b+1)(b+2)(b+3)(b+4)(b+5) \\ \end{aligned}

Working through this list, we find that the 4 ! 4! and 6 ! 6! lines have solutions: a = 4 , b = 23 , c = 24 a = 6 , b = 7 , c = 10 a=4, b=23, c=24 \\ a=6, b=7, c=10 .

We can check that 5 ! = ( b + 1 ) ( b + 2 ) 5! = (b+1)(b+2) has no solution.

Now, when we get onto the 7 ! 7! case and higher, we run into a problem. The minimum possible value for the r.h.s., which occurs when b = a b=a , is ( 2 a 3 ) ! a ! (2a-3)! \over a! But for a = 7 a=7 , this expression is already greater than 7 ! 7! .

We can easily show by induction (with a = 7 a=7 as the starting step) that a ! < ( 2 a 3 ) ! a ! a! < {(2a-3)! \over a!} for all a 7 a \ge 7 : ( a ! ) 2 < ( 2 a 3 ) ! ( a ! ) 2 ( a + 1 ) 2 < ( 2 a 3 ) ! ( a + 1 ) 2 < ( 2 a 3 ) ! ( 2 a 2 ) ( 2 a 1 ) = ( 2 a 1 ) ! ( a + 1 ) ! 2 < ( 2 ( a + 1 ) 3 ) ! \begin{aligned} (a!)^2 &\lt (2a-3)! \\ (a!)^2(a+1)^2 &\lt (2a-3)!(a+1)^2\\ &\lt (2a-3)!(2a-2)(2a-1) \\ &= (2a-1)!\\ (a+1)!^2 &\lt (2(a+1)-3)! \end{aligned}

So we only have the two solutions we found earlier, c = 24 c=24 plus c = 10 c=10 gives 34 \boxed{34} .

Moderator note:

Nice solution: complete and clear!

I am confused after the 7! part. May I ask why the minimum value of the RHS occurs when a=b?

Fan Zhang - 7 years, 9 months ago

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We assumed without loss of generality that a b a \le b . We can make that assumption because if there is a case with a > b a \gt b then we can swap a a and b b over and then apply the same reasoning.

Hopefully it's clear that if b = a b=a , then ( b + 1 ) ( b + 2 ) . . . (b+1)(b+2)... is less than if b b is some value greater than a a .

Matt McNabb - 7 years, 9 months ago

Yes I understood! :) thanks!

Fan Zhang - 7 years, 9 months ago

From the second equation, we can get that ( a + b ) ! = ( c + 3 ) ! (a+b)! = (c+3)! , and dividing this by the first equation gives us ( a + b a ) = 6 ( c + 3 3 ) \binom{a+b}{a} = 6\binom{c+3}{3} . Let a + b = c + 3 = n a+b=c+3=n . The problem reduces to finding which rows of Pascal's triangle have x x and 6 x 6x in them for some positive integer x x .

Let a = 4 a=4 . Then 6 ( n 3 ) = ( n 4 ) ( n 3 ) ! ( n 4 ) ! = 4 ! n 3 = 24 6\binom{n}{3} = \binom{n}{4} \to \frac{(n-3)!}{(n-4)!} = 4! \to n-3 = 24 \to c = 24 c=24 . Thus, ( a , b , c ) = ( 4 , 23 , 24 ) (a,b,c) = (4,23,24) satisfies the equations. Continuing in this manner (increasing a a by 1 1 and seeing if there is a positive integer solution for c c ) gives us the following results:

a = 5 a = 5 \to ( c ) ( c 1 ) = 5 ! = 120 c ∉ Z + (c)(c-1) = 5! = 120 \to c \not\in \mathbb{Z}^+

a = 6 a = 6 \to ( c ) ( c 1 ) ( c 2 ) = 6 ! = 720 c = 10 (c)(c-1)(c-2) = 6! = 720 \to c = 10

This last solution corresponds to the row n = 13 n = 13 . We can quickly verify by inspection that there are no solutions for rows n < 13 n < 13 , and there are clearly no other solutions for n > 13 n>13 , since we essentially checked them above.

Thus, there are only two possible values for c c , namely 10 10 and 24 24 , and so our answer is 10 + 24 = 34 10 + 24 = \fbox{34} .

i used guess and check

Daniel Wang - 7 years, 9 months ago

Can you explain in more details why there are no solutions for n>13?

Alexander Borisov - 7 years, 9 months ago
Ton de Moree
Sep 6, 2013

Without loss of generality, we can assume a b a \geq b . To get a feel for the situation we try a = c 1 a=c-1 .

This immedeately gives b = 4 b=4 from the second equation and c = b ! c=b! from the first. So c = 24 c=24 is one of the possibilities we seek.

Next we try a = c 2 a=c-2 to get b = 5 b=5 from the second equation and c ( c 1 ) = b ! c*(c-1)=b! from the first. Thus we get 120 = c ( c 1 ) 120=c*(c-1) . Unfortunately this equation has no integer solutions.

Trying a = c 3 a=c-3 similarly gives the equation 720 = c ( c 1 ) ( c 2 ) 720=c*(c-1)*(c-2) with solution c = 10 c=10 (and a = 7 , b = 6 a=7, b=6 ).

Trying a = c 4 a=c-4 similarly gives us the equation 5040 = c ( c 1 ) ( c 2 ) ( c 3 ) 5040=c*(c-1)*(c-2)*(c-3) with solution c = 10 c=10 (and a = 6 , b = 7 a=6, b=7 ).

Since we could assume a b a \geq b , we have found all possibilities; c = 24 c=24 and c = 10 c=10 . This results in the answer 34 34 .

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