Fall into the sun

A space probe is on a circular orbit around the sun at a distance of r 0 = 1 AU r_0 = 1 \,\text{AU} (astronomical unit). It collides with an asteroid in its trajectory, losing all of its kinetic energy. As a result, the space probe falls directly towards the sun.

How long (in days) does it take for the space probe to arrive at the sun? Round to the nearest integer.

Details and Assumptions: The Earth orbits the sun in an elliptical orbit with semi-major axis 1 AU , 1 \text{ AU}, and has an orbital period of 365.25 days. The planets (including the Earth) have a negligible impact on the orbit of the probe. The diameter of the sun is negligible compared to the orbital radius r 0 . r_0.


The answer is 65.

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3 solutions

Laszlo Mihaly
Mar 13, 2018

We will use Kepler’s 3rd law: T 1 2 / T 2 2 = a 1 3 / a 2 3 T_1^2/T_2^2=a_1^3/a_2^3 . Originally the semi-major axis of the orbit is a 1 = a_1= 1AU; the orbit is circular. The period is T 1 = T_1= 365.25 days.

The new orbit is an extreme ellipse: one of the focal points is the Sun, the other one is the point where the collision happened. The semi-major axis is a 2 = a_2= 1/2 AU. Solving the equation yields T 2 = 365.25 ( 2 ) 3 / 2 = 129.2 T_2=365.25(2)^{-3/2}=129.2 days.

Falling to the Sun takes half of the orbital period. The answer is 64.6 days.

Wouldn't falling to the sun be just a quarter of the orbital period?

Michael Tardibuono - 3 years, 2 months ago

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The orbit is a straight line of length R R , that can be considered an "ellipse" with semi major axis of R / 2 R/2 and semi minor axis of zero. Going along the straight line and coming back corresponds to a full period. Going there and coming back takes the same time. That is why falling to the Sun corresponds to half of the period.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Thank you!

Michael Tardibuono - 3 years, 2 months ago

My original thought, but that is only true for f= -kx In our problem that is not true. It will work if you assume homogeneous substance to tunnel through do to gravity...so the time falling from the surface is equal the trip around the planet at the surface.

Yair Ferber - 3 years, 2 months ago

The sun G equals 274m/(s**2) A single AU equals 149597870700m This means it should have taken 79 days for the orbited to get to the sun
Why is it wrong?

Nitsan Dolev Elfassy - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Because the "G" is not constant during the motion. The value you quoted is valid only on the Sun's surface.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years, 2 months ago

This is very clever. I had used a code with erroneous period ... 325.25 days got me 57 days. Bugger!

Pierre Carrette - 3 years, 2 months ago

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I did not invent this method. My high school physics teacher (his name was Miklos Vermes) told us about it.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years, 2 months ago

c= 2 π x r

365 = 2* 3.14 * r

r = 58

so it should take 58 days.

Shadi Kabajah - 3 years, 2 months ago

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I think you are mistaken. Your formula applies to the circumference of a circle. 365 days is not the circumference.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years, 2 months ago

Sir ,I had used the formula F=ma, then at F, I substituted the -Gm1m2/(r r)=-m1(w w)r then cancelling - signs and m1 an substituting w=(2 π)/T,and found for T. Is this method correct??? And sir I had another question that how to understand the new radius is 1/2A.U.??

erica phillips - 3 years, 2 months ago

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For the first part, your calculation yields the orbital period for the circular orbit. After the collision the orbit is not circular, but a straight line of length R R . This line can be considered an "ellipse" with semi major axis of R / 2 R/2 and semi minor axis of zero.

Laszlo Mihaly - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Thanks a lot!!!

erica phillips - 3 years, 2 months ago
Markus Michelmann
Mar 11, 2018

The probe moves only along the radial direction. In particular, the spacecraft has zero orbital angular momentum. The energy conservation is in this case E = T + U = 1 2 m r ˙ 2 G M m r = G M m r 0 = const E = T + U = \frac{1}{2} m \dot r^2 - G \frac{M m}{r} = - G \frac{M m}{r_0} = \text{const} with the initial distance r ( t = 0 ) = r 0 = 1 AU r(t = 0) = r_0 = 1\,\text{AU} . We solve now for the velocity: r ˙ = d r d t = 2 G M 1 r 1 r 0 = 2 G M r 0 r r 0 r d t = 1 2 G M r 0 r r 0 r d r T = 0 T d t = 1 2 G M r 0 0 r 0 r r 0 r d r \begin{aligned} & & \dot r = \frac{dr}{dt} &= -\sqrt{2 G M} \sqrt{\frac{1}{r} - \frac{1}{r_0}} = -\sqrt{2 G M} \sqrt{\frac{r_0 - r}{r_0 r }} \\ \Rightarrow & & dt & = - \frac{1}{\sqrt{2 G M}} \sqrt{\frac{r_0 r}{r_0 - r }} dr \\ \Rightarrow & & T = \int_{0}^T dt &= - \frac{1}{\sqrt{2 G M}} \int_{r_0}^{0} \sqrt{\frac{r_0 r}{r_0 - r }} dr \end{aligned} The differential equation was solved by separation of variables and expressed by an integral. The integral can be analytically determined by substitution and partial integration: r 0 0 r 0 r r 0 r d r = r 0 3 / 2 0 1 x 1 x d x x = r r 0 = r 0 3 / 2 0 2 z 2 ( 1 + z 2 ) 2 d z z = x 1 x = r 0 3 / 2 [ z 1 1 + z 2 0 + 0 d z 1 + z 2 ] integration by parts = r 0 3 / 2 arctan ( z ) 0 = π 2 r 0 3 / 2 \begin{aligned} -\int_{r_0}^{0} \sqrt{\frac{r_0 r}{r_0 - r }} dr &= r_0^{3/2} \int_{0}^{1} \sqrt{\frac{x}{1 - x }} d x & &\left| x = \frac{r}{r_0}\right.\\ &= r_0^{3/2} \int_{0}^{\infty} \frac{2 z^2}{(1+z^2)^2} dz & & \left| z = \sqrt{\frac{x}{1 - x }} \right.\\ &= r_0^{3/2} \left[ \left. - z \frac{1}{1 + z^2} \right|_{0}^\infty + \int_{0}^\infty \frac{dz}{1 + z^2} \right] & &|\text{integration by parts}\\ &= \left. r_0^{3/2} \arctan(z) \right|_0^\infty = \frac{\pi}{2} r_0^{3/2} \end{aligned} Therefore, the result for the travel time is T = π 2 2 r 0 3 G M = T 0 4 2 64.6 days T = \frac{\pi}{2\sqrt{2}} \frac{r_0^3}{\sqrt{G M}} = \frac{T_0}{4\sqrt{2}} \approx 64.6 \,\text{days} with the period T 0 = 2 π r 0 3 / 2 G M = 1 year = 365.25 days T_0 = \dfrac{2 \pi r_0^{3/2}}{\sqrt{G M}} = 1 \,\text{year} = 365.25 \,\text{days} of the earth.

The substitution r = r 0 sin 2 θ r = r_0\sin^2\theta makes evaluating T T somewhat easier.

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Yeah, I did it when I solved the problem and the integral immediately popped out to be pi/2. Much easier.

Sarthak Agrawal - 3 years, 2 months ago

You're right, that would be easier. My calculus is a bit rusty.

Markus Michelmann - 3 years, 2 months ago

Simpler if you take the acceleration to be v.dv/dx, so v.dv/dx = -k/x^2, where k = (2.pi/365.25)^2. This integrates to 0.5v^2 = k(1/x - 1), and thence to dt/dx = -1/sqrt(2k).sqrt(x/(1-x)). Using substitution x = (sin u)^2 gives answer of pi/sqrt(8k). (My units are AU for distance, days for time).

A Former Brilliant Member - 3 years, 2 months ago

Excellent. Let's talk more physical Markus!

Laquita Jackson - 3 years, 2 months ago

I thought the acceleration would be (w^2)/r (w=angular velocity of the earth and probe r=AU) for the earth orbiting with time period 365.25 and radius AU the acceleration from the sun should be AU (2Pi/365.25)^2 because angular velocity equals 2Pi frequency => 2Pi/time period

then knowing the acceleration from the sun's gravity we could use s=ut+1/2at^(2) where the initial velocity equals zero and re-arrange for t = (2s/a)^(1/2)

subbing in s as AU and a as AU*(2Pi/365.25)^2

BUT IT DIDN'T WORK for some reason, please help

obviously AU cancels and you only need to know the time period but the answer I get is 82.21

Luke Brill - 3 years, 2 months ago

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The formula s = u t + 1 2 a t 2 s = u t + \frac{1}{2} a t^2 is wrong because there is no uniformly accelerated motion. This means that the acceleration in the gravitational field of the sun depends on the distance to the sun, so that d 2 s d t 2 const \frac{d^2s}{dt^2} \not= \text{const} . As the space probe approaches the sun, the acceleration increases inversely proportional to the distance. One can solve this task only in two different ways:

  1. One uses the third Kepler's law to come to the period duration
  2. One has to solve the equation of motion explicitly. (As in my case) The equation of motion can generally be represented as a differential equation m d 2 r d t 2 = F ( r ) m \frac{d^2 r}{dt^2} = F(r) , where the force F ( r ) F(r) depends on the distance r r . But this goes beyond the physics, which is taken up in the normal school education.

Markus Michelmann - 3 years, 2 months ago

Nice solution, much more elegant than mine, I didn't like the idea of dealing with infinities from using zero as a substitution so I used the sum of the radii as a substitution and later approximated the sum of the radii divided by r0 as zero and got the same answer, is this always valid?

Billy McGregor - 3 years, 2 months ago

I took exactly the same approach, but miscalculated the last integral and came up with 41 days... At least I got the physics right!

Gabriel Chacón - 3 years, 1 month ago
Christian Douctte
Mar 20, 2018

I solved this problem very differently from the intended "right" way. I used this code to iteratively track the force, momentum, and position of the asteroid with small time intervals. Running the code estimates the time it takes for the asteroid to reach the sun.

I also used numerical methods to solve this problem.

Adam Lohonyai - 3 years, 2 months ago

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I did as well: https://gist.github.com/GioBonvi/945b19f9a7feef5ef401a5305ed3157a

Giorgio Bonvicini - 3 years, 2 months ago

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