Hitting a Bird with Projectile...

A stone is projected from a point on the ground in such a direction as to hit a bird on the top of a telegraph post of height H H and then attain maximum height of 2 H 2H above the ground. If at the instant of projection, the bird were to fly away horizontally with uniform speed, Find the ratio between the horizontal velocity of bird and the stone, if the stone still hits the bird while descending.
The answer is of the form a b c + d \frac{a}{b\sqrt{c} + d} . Then enter the answer as a + b + c + d a + b + c + d , where a , b , c , d a, b, c, d are integers.


The answer is 6.

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4 solutions

Discussions for this problem are now closed

Avineil Jain
May 31, 2014

Let horizontal velocity of stone be v x v_{x} , vertical velocity be v y v_{y} and velocity of bird be v b v_{b} .

Since the maximum height of the stone is 2 H 2H ,

( v y ) 2 = ( 2 H ) ( 2 g ) (v_{y})^{2} = (2H)(2g)

Now, Writing equation of motion for the vertical,

H = v y t 1 2 g t 2 H = v_{y}t - \frac{1}{2}gt^{2}

Let t 1 t_{1} and t 2 t_{2} be the times at which the stone achieves the height H. Then, t 1 t_{1} and t 2 t_{2} are the roots of the above equation, with t 1 t_{1} > t 2 t_{2}

t 1 = v y + ( v y ) 2 2 H g g a n d t 2 = v y ( v y ) 2 2 H g g t_{1} = \dfrac{v_{y} + \sqrt{(v_{y})^{2} - 2Hg}}{g} and~~ t_{2} = \dfrac{v_{y} - \sqrt{(v_{y})^{2} - 2Hg}}{g}

Substitute value of v y v_{y} here.

We get,

t 1 = 2 H g + 2 H g g a n d t 2 = 2 H g 2 H g g t_{1} = \dfrac{ 2\sqrt{Hg} + \sqrt{2Hg}}{g} and~~ t_{2} = \dfrac{ 2\sqrt{Hg} - \sqrt{2Hg}}{g}

t 1 t 2 = 2 2 H g g t_{1} - t_{2} = 2\dfrac{\sqrt{2Hg}}{g}

NOTE that if the stone is to hit the bird, then they must cover same distances.

v x ( t 1 t 2 ) = v b t 1 v_{x} ( t_{1} - t_{2} ) = v_{b} t_{1}

Substituting,

2 v x 2 H g = v b ( 2 H g + 2 H g ) 2~v_{x}\sqrt{2Hg} = v_{b}( 2\sqrt{Hg} + \sqrt{2Hg} )

v b v x = 2 2 + 1 \dfrac{v_{b}}{v_{x}} = \dfrac{2}{\sqrt{2} + 1}

Thus, a + b + c + d = 6 a + b + c + d = 6

can you please explain why v^2=(2H)(2g).

Ibteda Swianto - 7 years ago

Derive using equations of motion.

Avineil Jain - 7 years ago

conservation of energy (KE=PE at 2H)

Adam Dai - 6 years, 10 months ago

Great solution.Did with a different but very lengthy way..Yours is better.

pranav jangir - 7 years ago

There is a slip! Distance is not the same \text{There is a slip! Distance is not the same} . Time is the same. Distances are proportional to Velocity of stone. Can refer to my solution.

Niranjan Khanderia - 6 years, 10 months ago

Could you explain why Vb t1 not Vb t2 ?

EzzEddin Ahmed - 7 years ago

t 1 t_{1} is the time at the the stone is at a height H while coming down.

Avineil Jain - 7 years ago

I loved every bit of detail about this answer, thanks for putting in the time to do it !

Youssef Eweis - 6 years, 11 months ago

why did you assume that the bird and the stone cover the same distance? they are not at the same starting point, or are they?

Subhadeep Dasgupta - 7 years ago

They are not at the same starting point. Think again, the condition for collision is pretty simple.

Avineil Jain - 7 years ago

Staring points are not the same. Only the time is same. Refer to my solution.

Niranjan Khanderia - 6 years, 10 months ago
Himanshu Arora
Jun 19, 2014

This problem deals with a parabola and it's generic. Speeds are proportional to distances Imgur Imgur This is a parabola with equation y = x 2 y=x^{2} . Now, Co-ordinates of the point shown are ( 1 , 1 ) , ( 1 , 1 ) a n d ( 2 , 2 ) (-1,1), (1,1) and (\sqrt2,2) . Thus the required ratio is 2 1 + 2 \frac{2}{1+\sqrt2} . Hence the answer 6 \boxed{6}

Imgur Imgur

Let the time for the STONE to rise from ground to 2 H \displaystyle 2H and fall from 2 H \displaystyle 2H to ground each be equal to T \displaystyle T .

L e t t h e t i m e f o r t h e S T O N E t o r i s e f r o m H t o 2 H a n d f a l l f r o m 2 H t o H e a c h b e e q u a l t o t . T o t a l h o r i z o n t a l d i s t a n c e a n d v e l o c i t y o f t h e b i r d a r e s a y D B a n d V B ; a n d t h o s e o f t h e s t o n e , D S a n d V S . H = ( 1 / 2 ) g t 2 a n d 2 H = ( 1 / 2 ) g T 2 . T = 2 t . Let~the~time~for~the~STONE~to~rise~from~H~to~2H~and\\ fall~from~2H~to~H~each~be~equal~to~~t.\\ Total~ horizontal~distance~and~velocity~of~the~bird~are~say~\\ D_B~and~V_B; ~and~those~of~the~stone,~ D_S~and~V_S.\\ H=(1/2)gt^2~and~~~2H=(1/2)gT^2.~~~~~\therefore T=\sqrt2 *t. ~~~\color \red{The~ time~ taken~ by~each~ is~ the~ same}=Total~ time =TT. T T = T + t = 2 t + t = ( 1 + 2 ) t \therefore TT=T+t=\sqrt2 *t+t = (1+\sqrt2)*t \\
E q u a l T i m e M E T H O D : D B = V S ( t + t ) , D S = V S T T Equal~Time~METHOD:-\\ D_B=V_S*(t+t),~~D_S=V_S*TT ~~~~ \displaystyle \therefore \dfrac{V_B}{V_S}= \dfrac {D_B/TT}{D_S/TT}=\dfrac{V_S * (2t)}{V_S*TT}= \frac{2t}{(1*\sqrt2+1)*t}~~=\frac{a}{b * \sqrt c+d}. \\a+b+c+d= 2+1+2+1=\boxed{6}\\\\~~\\~~\\OR\\ \\\color \red{Equal~Distance~METHOD:-} \\The~bird~covers~D_B~with~V_B~in~Time~TT=(1+\sqrt2)*t. \\Same~distance~is~covered~by~the~stone~~with~V_S~~in~2t.\\ \displaystyle \therefore~V_B*(\sqrt2+1)*t=V_S*2*t...\displaystyle {.....\frac{V_B }{V_S }=\frac{2t }{(1*\sqrt2+1)*t}=\frac{a}{b*\sqrt c+d } }\\a+b+c+d =2+1+2+1 =6.\\\boxed{6}

Ruturaj Atre
Jun 17, 2014

We know that a projectile is a parabola. Consider the topmost point as the origin (O). Let bird be at A initially and let projectile be fired from P. Along Y-axis, OA is equal to H and OP is 2H.

By nature of parabola, along X-axis if OA is taken as 1 (say) then OP will be sqrt(2). As time required by bullet and bird is same, speeds are proportional to distance.

Horizontal distance by bird = 1 + 1 = 2 Horizontal distance by bullet = sqrt(2) + 1 which gives us a=2, b=1, c=2, d=1 and answer = 6.

nice approach .! well this is a straight question from DC Pandey Mechanics Subjective problems

Akshit Vashishth - 6 years, 11 months ago

Yep..i was laughing wen i saw it

Arya Haldar - 6 years, 9 months ago

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