Hyperloop: Drag

The Hyperloop is a hypothetical new fast transport system between cities, which works by launching pods that carry people through a very low air pressure tunnel. The drag force on the 15000 kg 15000~\mbox{kg} Hyperloop pod traveling at approximately 300 m/s 300~\mbox{m/s} is 320 N 320~\mbox{N} . If the drag force follows the usual law of F d = C v 2 F_d=Cv^2 , where C C is a constant and v v is the velocity, then how long would it take in seconds for the Hyperloop pod to slow down to 150 m/s 150~\mbox{m/s} ?

Note: it's a pretty long time, which gives you an idea of why the Hyperloop is pretty energy efficient.

Details and assumptions

  • Assume drag is the only force on the Hyperloop pod.


The answer is 14060.

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14 solutions

Ricky Escobar
Aug 18, 2013

m = 15 000 k g m=15 \ 000 \ \mathrm{kg} is the pod's mass. v 0 = 300 m s v_0=300 \ \mathrm{\frac{m}{s}} is the pod's initial velocity. v f = 150 m s v_f=150 \ \mathrm{\frac{m}{s}} is the pod's final velocity. F 0 = 320 N F_0=320 \ \mathrm{N} is the drag force on the pod at v = v 0 v=v_0 .

We can find the constant C C in F d = C v 2 F_d=Cv^2 by setting F d = F 0 F_d=F_0 and v = v 0 v=v_0 , which gives C = F 0 v 0 2 C=\frac{F_0}{v_0^2} . So the force on the pod is $$F= -F d=-\frac{F 0 v^2}{v 0^2}.$$ By Newton's Second Law, we have $$a=\frac{F}{m}.$$ Substituting in for F F and noting that a = d v d t a=\frac{dv}{dt} , we get $$\frac{dv}{dt}=-\frac{F 0 v^2}{v 0^2 m}.$$ This is a separable differential equation, so separating variables and integrating gives us $$\int \frac{1}{v^2}dv=\int \frac{-F 0}{v 0^2 m}dt$$ $$\frac{-1}{v} = \frac{-F 0}{v 0^2 m}t + k,$$ where k k is the constant of integration. Plugging in the initial condition of v ( 0 ) = v 0 v(0)=v_0 gives $$k=\frac{-1}{v 0}.$$ So we have $$\frac{1}{v} = \frac{F 0}{v 0^2 m}t + \frac{1}{v 0}.$$ Now, plugging in v = v f v=v_f and solving for t t gives $$t=\left(\frac{1}{v f}-\frac{1}{v 0}\right)\left(\frac{v 0^2 m}{F_0}\right)$$ Plugging in the values given, we get $$t=\left(\frac{1}{150 \ \mathrm{\frac{m}{s}}}-\frac{1}{300 \ \mathrm{\frac{m}{s}}}\right)\left(\frac{(300 \ \mathrm{\frac{m}{s}})^2 (15 \ 000 \ \mathrm{kg})}{320 \ \mathrm{N}}\right)$$ $$=\fbox{14 062.5 s}$$

Really good solution, well done bud.

Abhijeeth Babu - 7 years, 9 months ago

None of the above was required. See my solution. ;)

Ahaan Rungta - 7 years, 9 months ago
Nhat Le
Aug 20, 2013

We first find the value of the constant C C : C = F d v 2 = 320 30 0 2 = 3.556 × 1 0 3 k g m 1 s 4 C=\frac{F_d}{v^2}=\frac{320}{300^2}=3.556\times 10^{-3} \, \mathrm{kgm}^{-1}\mathrm{s}^{-4}

Note that F d = m a = m d v d t F_d=ma=m\frac{\mathrm{d}v}{\mathrm{d}t} . Now to find the time, we will solve the differential equation: m d v d t = C v 2 m\frac{\mathrm{d}v}{\mathrm{d}t} = -Cv^2 m d v v 2 = C d t m\frac{\mathrm{d}v}{v^2} = -C\mathrm{d}t m 300 150 1 v 2 d v = 0 T C d t m\int_{300}^{150} \frac{1}{v^2} \, \mathrm{d}v = -\int_0^T C\, \mathrm{d}t m ( 1 v 300 150 ) = C T m \left( \left.\frac{-1}{v} \right| ^{150}_{300} \right) = -CT m ( 1 150 + 1 300 ) = C T m\left(\frac{-1}{150} + \frac{1}{300} \right) = -CT T = m C ( 1 300 ) = 15000 3.556 × 1 0 3 ( 1 300 ) = 14060 s T= \frac{m}{C} \left( \frac{1}{300} \right) = \frac{15000}{3.556\times 10^{-3}}\left( \frac{1}{300} \right) =14060 \, \mathrm{ s}

Clearest solution, I suppose! Yay!

Kim Phú Ngô - 7 years, 9 months ago
Carl Denton
Dec 15, 2013

We solve for C by manipulating F d = C v 2 F_d=Cv^2 to get C = F 1 v 0 2 C=\frac{F_1}{v_0^2} . We keep in mind that this will be negative as F 1 F_1 is a resistive force. Next, we attempt to find the acceleration: m a = C v 2 ma=Cv^2 . We rewrite as m v ˙ = C v 2 m\dot{v}=Cv^2 and separating variables, we have m d v v 2 = C d t m\frac{dv}{v^2}=Cdt . Integrating, we get m v = C t + k -\frac{m}{v} = Ct + k , where k is the constant of integration. We plug in t=0 and find that k = m v 0 k=-\frac{m}{v_0} , and m v 0 m v = C t \frac{m}{v_0}-\frac{m}{v}=Ct . Solving for t, we find that t = m v 0 m v C = 14062.5 t=\frac{\frac{m}{v_0}-\frac{m}{v}}{C} = 14062.5 .

First, we can find the value of constant C:

320 = C × 9 1 0 4 C = 32 9 1 0 3 k g m \mathbf{320 = C\times 9\cdot 10^{4} \leftrightarrow C = \frac{32}{9}\cdot 10^{-3}\cdot \frac{kg}{m}}

Now we can find the expression of the aceleration as a function of the speed:

F = 32 9 1 0 3 × v 2 = 15 1 0 3 × ( a ) \mathbf{F = \frac{32}{9}\cdot 10^{-3}\times v^{2} = 15\cdot 10^{3}\times (-a)}

a = 32 135 1 0 6 × v 2 \mathbf{a = \frac{-32}{135}\cdot 10^{-6}\times v^{2}}

Now, we can integrate the expression of the instant velocity, defined at the intervals [ 0 , t ] [0, t] and [ v 0 , v ] [v_{0}, v] :

d v = a × d t \mathbf{dv = a\times dt}

d t = d v a 0 t d t = v 0 v d v a \mathbf{dt = \frac{dv}{a} \leftrightarrow \int_{0}^{t} dt = \int_{v_{0}}^{v} \frac{dv}{a}}

t = 135 1 0 6 32 v 0 v d v v 2 = 135 1 0 6 32 ( 1 v + 1 v 0 ) \mathbf{t = \frac{-135\cdot 10^{6}}{32}\cdot \int_{v_{0}}^{v} \frac{dv}{v^{2}} = \frac{-135\cdot 10^{6}}{32}\cdot (\frac{-1}{v} + \frac{1}{v_0})}

Solving for v 0 = 300 m / s v_{0} = 300m/s and v = 150 m / s v = 150m/s we find:

t 14060 s \mathbf{t \cong 14060s}

Ahaan Rungta
Aug 18, 2013

To find the amount of time it takes to decelerate, t t , we need to find the deceleration magnitude a a . Then, if the speed is v v , we would have v = a t t = v a . v = at \implies t = \dfrac {v}{a}. But, from Newton's Second Law, a = F d m a = \dfrac {F_d}{m} . Thus: t = v a = v F d m , t = \dfrac {v}{a} = \dfrac {v}{\dfrac {F_d}{m}}, where m m is the mass. We have t = v m F d , t = \dfrac {vm}{F_d}, so we have all that we need.

Substitute F d = 320 N F_d = 320 \, \text{N} , v = 300 m/s v = 300 \, \text{m/s} and m = 15000 kg m = 15000 \, \text{kg} to get t = 1.41 × 1 0 4 s . t = \boxed {1.41 \times 10^4 \, \text{s}}. Remark : Note that the formula for drag force was not required.

Your method...

  1. Assumes constant drag force of 320N all the way, which is wrong...

  2. Looks for when the final velocity is 0, which is also wrong...

... but it seems two wrongs can actually make a right!

Louie Tan Yi Jie - 7 years, 9 months ago

A comment on why this worked - it is a bit of a coincidence, but not as much as you might think. How many ways can you combine the given dimensionful quantities to get a time? And remember, v f v_f is not an independent dimensionful quantity, it's v 0 / 2 v_0/2 . What then is the only thing that can go wrong?

David Mattingly Staff - 7 years, 9 months ago

I disagree. You never used the final velocity! It seems odd that the time required to slow down to v f v_f would be independent of v f v_f . Your solution just happens to work out in the special case v f = 1 2 v 0 v_f=\frac{1}{2}v_0 . The equation v = a t v=at is valid only for constant acceleration.

Ricky Escobar - 7 years, 9 months ago

I think it is just a coincidence that you get the correct answer using this method. Acceleration of the pod is not constant in this question.

Pie Small - 7 years, 9 months ago

You are really lucky as this worked out.

Abhijeeth Babu - 7 years, 9 months ago

Very odd.. I did it through a rather laborious process of integrating e.t.c to get the above answer. The force is not constant so how do your above equations apply? I can see there is something interesting about the acceleration being proportional to kinetic energy which means that it might not be coincidence inputting your numbers yields a correct answer. Can you explain this or have you just got lucky here by applying constant acceleration equations?

Jackson T - 7 years, 9 months ago
Haroun Meghaichi
Aug 20, 2013

The sum of the forces equals the acceleration, in this case there is only one force so we get the next differential equation : M d v d t = C v 2 . M\frac{\mathrm{d}v}{\mathrm{d}t} = -C v^2. We use separation of variables : M C d v v 2 = t + C 1 v ( t ) = M C t + C 1 . \frac{M}{C} \int \frac{\mathrm{d}v}{v^2} = -t+C_1 \Longrightarrow v(t)= \frac{M}{Ct+C_1}. Now, we have : C = 350 30 0 2 C= \frac{350}{300^2} , and from the initial conditions we get : v ( 0 ) = 300 M C 1 = 300 C 1 = 50. v(0)=300\Longleftrightarrow \frac{M}{C_1}=300\Longrightarrow C_1=50. Now : v ( t ) = 150 t = M 150 C 1 150 C = 28125 2 = 14062.5. v(t)= 150 \Longrightarrow t= \frac{M-150C_1}{150C} = \frac{28125}{2} = 14062.5.

Louie Tan Yi Jie
Aug 19, 2013

First we find C.

320 = C × 30 0 2 C = 4 1125 320=C\times300^2\\ C=\frac{4}{1125}

We know that F = m a = C v 2 F=m a=-C v^2 .

Substituting constants and rewriting a and v as x-derivatives,

15000 x ( t ) = 4 1125 x ( t ) 2 15000 x''(t)=-\frac{4}{1125}x'(t)^2

The solution to this is:

x ( t ) = 4218750 log ( t 4218750 c 1 ) + c 2 x(t)=4218750 \log \left(t-4218750 c_1\right)+c_2

Initial conditions at t = 0 t=0 are x = 0 x=0 and v = 300 v=300 . Substituting and solving for unknown constants give:

c 1 = 1 300 c 2 = 4218750 log ( 28125 2 ) x ( t ) = 4218750 log ( 2 t 28125 + 1 ) x ( t ) = 300 2 t 28125 + 1 c_1=-\frac{1}{300}\\ c_2=-4218750 \log \left(\frac{28125}{2}\right)\\ x(t)=4218750 \log \left(\frac{2 t}{28125}+1\right)\\ x'(t)=\frac{300}{\frac{2 t}{28125}+1}

We are searching for t t when v = 150 v=150 :

v = x ( t ) = 300 2 t 28125 + 1 = 150 t = 14062.5 v=x'(t)=\frac{300}{\frac{2 t}{28125}+1}=150\\ t=14062.5

Amgalan Amgaa
Jan 20, 2014

c=320/〖300〗^2 , c v^2=ma, c v^2=m (dv/dt), C/m dt=dv/v^2 ∫ (t 1)^(t 2)▒〖C/m*dt〗=∫ 300^150▒dv/v^2
thats all :D.

Siddharth Shah
Dec 19, 2013

The first information about the f=cv^2 for finding the constant c. Hence putting the appropriate values i.e f=320 and v = 300, we find "c". Next using the assumption m.dv/dt=cv^2 as drag is the only force acting on the system. On further solving, we get m.dv/v^2 = c.dt. On integrating and putting the limit of 'v' from 300 to 150, we get the appropriate answer that is 14062.5 sec.

mass m=15000 kg drag force when pod travelling at 300 m/s=320 N since, d r a g f o r c e = C v 2 drag force=C v^{2} so, C v 2 = 320 C v^{2}=320 at v=300 from above equation we can find the value of constant C. now from calculus a = d v d t a= \frac{dv}{dt} , putting a = ( C v 2 ) m a= \frac{(Cv^{2})}{m} and solving the differential equation with constrains we get the required answer.

Jord W
Dec 15, 2013

F=Cv^2 So to find C, the initial conditions of F=320N when v=300m/s can be used, giving C to be about 3.56*10^-3 .

Now this force is the only force on the pod, so is also the net force. {F(net)=ma=m(dv/dt)=-Cv^2} resulting in {- v^(-2) dv = C/m dt}

integrating between 300 and 150 for the velocity, and 0 and T for time: C/m T = 1/150 -1/300

Substituting in the C and m values:

yielding T=1.4*10^4 s

Drew Cummins
Aug 24, 2013

First we solve for the constant C C . We're given F d = 320 F_d=320 when v = 300 v=300 . Plugging into the drag force equation leads to 320 = C × 30 0 2 320 = C \times 300^2 , yielding C = 4 1125 C = \frac{4}{1125} .

Next, we write the equations of motion for the system (plugging F d = C v 2 F_d = Cv^2 into F = m a F = ma ): d v d t = C v 2 m \frac{dv}{dt} = \frac{C v^2}{m} The solution is 1 v 2 d v = C m d t 1 v 2 d v = C m d t 1 v = C t m + C v \begin{aligned} \frac{1}{v^2} dv &= \frac{C}{m} dt \\ \int \frac{1}{v^2} dv &= \int \frac{C}{m} dt \\ -\frac{1}{v} &= \frac{C t}{m} + C_v \\ \end{aligned} where C v C_v is the constant of integration. We use this equation for the remaining calcuations. Plugging in the given initial conditions ( t = 0 , v = 300 t=0, \; v=300 ) reveals that C v = 1 300 C_v = -\frac{1}{300} . And finally solving for the unknown t t at the desired velocity v = 150 v=150 using our newly found C v C_v shows that: t = 28125 2 t = \frac{28125}{2} Which is 14062.5 in decimal.

Vitaly Breyev
Aug 24, 2013

From Newtons Second Law, F = d p d t = m d v d t F = \frac{dp}{dt} = m \frac{dv}{dt} . We also have F = C v 2 F = Cv^2 .

We can determine the value of C C to be C = F d v 2 C = \frac{F_d}{v^2}

Equating these expressions for the force on the pod, we get m d v d t = C v 2 m \frac{dv}{dt} = Cv^2 , which is a separable ODE in v v and t t . Solving this equation for t t yields t = m C v 1 + A t = \frac{m}{C} \cdot v^{-1} + A , where A A is arbitrary. Setting A = 0 A = 0 and plugging in the values for v v and C C we get t = 14060.5 s t = \boxed{14060.5} \text{ s}

Wang Yangwu
Aug 22, 2013

Acceleration = d v d t = F m =\frac{dv}{dt}=\frac{F}{m}

320 N = C v 2 320N=Cv^{2}

C = 320 N ( 300 m / s ) 2 C=\frac{320N}{(300m/s)^{2}}

Now we equate acceleration to drag force, and C v 2 Cv^{2} is negative here because the force is applied in the direction opposite to motion, whose direction we are taking to be positive.

d v d t = C v 2 \frac{dv}{dt}=-Cv^{2}

1 C v 2 d v = 1 m d t -\frac{1}{Cv^{2}} dv=\frac{1}{m} dt

1 C v = t + c m \frac{1}{Cv}=\frac{t+c}{m}

t + c = m C v t+c=\frac{m}{Cv}

Subbing in the initial values of 300m/s at 0s and the values of C and m,

c = 15000 k g 320 N ( 300 m / s ) 2 × 300 m / s = 14 , 062.5 s c=\frac{15000kg}{\frac{320N}{(300m/s)^{2}} \times 300m/s}=14,062.5s

Now plugging in values to the equation we have,

14 , 062.5 s + t = 15000 k g 150 C 14,062.5s+t=\frac{15000kg}{150C}

t = 14 , 062.5 s = 14 , 100 s ( 3 s f ) t=14,062.5s=14,100s (3sf)

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