Raising Itself

Algebra Level 3

True or False?

If x > y > 0 x > y > 0 , then

x x > y y . x^x > y^y.


Inspiration .

True False

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3 solutions

Zee Ell
Nov 18, 2016

We will show that

( 1 8 ) 1 8 > ( 1 4 ) 1 4 ( \frac {1}{8} ) ^ { \frac {1}{8} } > ( \frac {1}{4} ) ^ { \frac {1}{4} }

If we put both sides to the 8th power, we get:

( 1 8 ) > ( 1 4 ) 2 1 8 > 1 16 ( \frac {1}{8} ) > ( \frac {1}{4} )^2 \Rightarrow \frac {1}{8} > \frac {1}{16}

Since we found a counterexample, therefore the statement is not true in general.

Hence, our answer should be: F A L S E \text {Hence, our answer should be: } \boxed {FALSE}


As another counterexample, we can use a calculator to shot at:

If x = 0.3 and y = 0.2, then x > y > 0 but x x < y y x^x < y^y

x x = 0. 3 0.3 = 0.697 (3 d. p.) and x^x = 0.3^{0.3} = 0.697 \text { (3 d. p.) and }

y y = 0. 2 0.2 = 0.725 (3 d. p.), therefore: y^y = 0.2^{0.2} = 0.725 \text { (3 d. p.), therefore: }

x x < y y x^x < y^y

We can solve this without a calculator as well:

If we put both sides to the 10th power, we get:

0. 3 3 < 0. 2 2 0.027 < 0.04 0.3^3 < 0.2^2 \iff 0.027 < 0.04


If we want to see in general, when is our original statement true of false, we can use differentiation:

x x = e x l n x x^x = e^{xlnx}

After differentiating this, we get:

e x l n x ( l n x + 1 ) e^{xlnx}(lnx +1)

Since the first term (power of e) is always positive, therefore the first derivative is positive (and our original function is strictly monotonously increasing), when its second term is positive:

l n x + 1 > 0 lnx + 1 > 0

l n x > 1 lnx > -1

x > 1 e x > \frac {1}{e}

Which means, that x x > y y is always true, when: \text {Which means, that } x^x > y^y \text { is always true, when: }

x > y 1 e x > y ≥ \frac {1}{e}

And it is always false (the opposite is true: x x < y y ), when: \text {And it is always false (the opposite is true: } x^x < y^y \text { ), when: }

1 e x > y \frac {1}{e} ≥ x > y

(In other cases, even equality is possible (e.g. x=0.5 , y = 0.25)

It is easy to prove that the inequality holds if

x 1 > 1 e y > 0 x ≥ 1 > \frac {1}{e} ≥ y > 0

If however:

1 > x > 1 e > y > 0 1 > x > \frac {1}{e} > y > 0

then what we can say is (due to the facts, that x x is continuous on the interval (0,1); x^x \text { is continuous on the interval (0,1); }

the limits (+ and - sides, respectively) at both of the two endpoints are equal to 1;

and the minimum point is between x and y):

x y : x x > y y \forall x \exists y : x^x > y^y

x y : x x < y y \forall x \exists y : x^x < y^y

x y : x x = y y \forall x \exists y : x^x = y^y

and vice versa:

y x : x x > y y \forall y \exists x : x^x > y^y

y x : x x < y y \forall y \exists x : x^x < y^y

y x : x x = y y \forall y \exists x : x^x = y^y )

It appears that you need computer-assisted calculation to solve this problem. Is it actually possible to solve this problem without any computer-assisted calculation?

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 6 months ago

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Yes, another counterexample (which doesn't require a calculator) is:

( 1 8 ) 1 8 > ( 1 4 ) 1 4 ( \frac {1}{8} ) ^ { \frac {1}{8} } > ( \frac {1}{4} ) ^ { \frac {1}{4} }

If we put both sides to the 8th power, we get:

( 1 8 ) > ( 1 4 ) 2 ( \frac {1}{8} ) > ( \frac {1}{4} )^2

1 8 > 1 16 \frac {1}{8} > \frac {1}{16}

If we want to solve it in general, we can use differentiation:

x x = e x l n x x^x = e^{xlnx}

After differentiating this, we get:

e x l n x ( l n x + 1 ) e^{xlnx}(lnx +1)

Since the first term (power of e) is always positive, therefore the first derivative is positive (and our original function is strictly monotonously increasing), when its second term is positive:

l n x + 1 > 0 lnx + 1 > 0

l n x > 1 lnx > -1

x > 1 e x > \frac {1}{e}

Which means, that x x > y y is always true, when: \text {Which means, that } x^x > y^y \text { is always true, when: }

x > y 1 e x > y ≥ \frac {1}{e}

And it is always false (the opposite is true: x x < y y ), when: \text {And it is always false (the opposite is true: } x^x < y^y \text { ), when: }

1 e x > y \frac {1}{e} ≥ x > y

(In other cases, even equality is possible (e.g. x=0.5 , y = 0.25)

It is easy to prove that the inequality holds if

x 1 > 1 e y > 0 x ≥ 1 > \frac {1}{e} ≥ y > 0

If however:

1 > x > 1 e > y > 0 1 > x > \frac {1}{e} > y > 0

then what we can say is (due to the facts, that x x is continuous on the interval (0,1); x^x \text { is continuous on the interval (0,1); }

the limits (+ and - sides, respectively) at the two endpoints are at 1;

and the minimum point is between x and y):

x y : x x > y y \forall x \exists y : x^x > y^y

x y : x x < y y \forall x \exists y : x^x < y^y

x y : x x = y y \forall x \exists y : x^x = y^y

and vice versa:

y x : x x > y y \forall y \exists x : x^x > y^y

y x : x x < y y \forall y \exists x : x^x < y^y

y x : x x = y y \forall y \exists x : x^x = y^y )

Zee Ell - 4 years, 6 months ago

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That's a very nice, simple counter example. Making it a multiple of each other simplfies the power step.

Calvin Lin Staff - 4 years, 6 months ago

Your first counterexample doesn't fit the requirements that x must be bigger than y

Jason Li - 4 years, 6 months ago

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x = 1 4 , y = 1 8 x = \frac {1}{4} , y = \frac {1}{8}

Therefore x > y and since the (sort of) opposite of our original statement regarding the powers is true, therefore we have a good counterexample here as well.

Zee Ell - 4 years, 6 months ago

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Oh I see know. Thanks for the clarification.

Jason Li - 4 years, 6 months ago
Calvin Lin Staff
Nov 21, 2016

To prove that this statement is false, we just need a counter example. Observe that

( 1 4 ) 1 4 > ( 1 3 ) 1 3 ( 1 4 ) 3 > ( 1 3 ) 4 3 4 > 4 3 81 > 64 \left( \frac{1}{4} \right) ^ { \frac{1}{4} } > \left( \frac{1}{3} \right) ^ { \frac{1}{3} } \Leftrightarrow \left( \frac{1}{4} \right) ^ { 3 } > \left( \frac{1}{3} \right) ^ { 4 } \Leftrightarrow 3^4 > 4^3 \Leftrightarrow 81 > 64

Hence, the statement is not true.


To determine the increasing / decreasing nature of x x x^x , we can use calculus to show that it has a turning point at x = 1 e x = \frac{1}{e} .

is it possible to show that in general this is false only by using algebra (without calculus)?

Hjalmar Orellana Soto - 4 years, 5 months ago
Sourabh Jangid
Nov 20, 2016

Draw the graph of x^x it is decreasing in interval (0,1/e) and in this interval given inequality does not hold whereas it is increasing in (1/e,infinity) and in this interval the given inequality holds. So this inequality is not true for all (x,y) satisfying x>y>0..

How can we tell that the graph is decreasing / increasing in those intervals?

Calvin Lin Staff - 4 years, 6 months ago

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