Interesting Property Of Seven!

Note that 7 ! = 10 × 9 × 8 × 7. 7!=10 \times9 \times8\times7.

What is the largest possible value of n n for which n ! n! can be represented as a product of n 3 n-3 consecutive integers?


The answer is 23.

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6 solutions

J X
Aug 28, 2014

My first approach was to do some brute force hand calcs to get a feel for the question and try to pick up any patterns. After a while I realised n ! 3 ! < n ! \frac{n!}{3!} < n! and therefore n ! 3 ! < ( n + k ) ! ( 3 + k ) ! < n ! \frac{n!}{3!} < \frac{(n+k)!}{(3+k)!} < n! for certain values of k up to some limit.

So if we want to find a solution we can set the second two parts of the inequality to be equal: ( n + k ) ! ( 3 + k ) ! = n ! \frac{(n+k)!}{(3+k)!} = n! I figured since both sides have n! in some forms I could probably cancel it out... And with some more algebra I arrived at this product series i = 1 k ( n + i ) = 3 ! i = 1 k ( 3 + k ) \prod_{i=1}^k (n+i) = 3!\cdot \prod_{i=1}^k (3+k)

And here the RHS does not change as you increase n, and I also thought (since the question suggested there was a maximum number) k would be 1 for the largest n, and so we have n + 1 = 3 ! ( 3 + 1 ) n+1=3!*(3+1) and so n = 23 n=\boxed{23}

I think I was half trying to find a simple iterative equation I could plug into python but it was much more satisfying arriving at the solution on paper. Great question!

that last product series seems forced, and yes, 23 is a brute forced solution, but is it the maximum?

Eliud Alejandro Maldonado Sanchez - 3 years, 5 months ago
Trevor Arashiro
Sep 1, 2014

Just a general formula for problems such as this. Say we want the max integer n such that n! can be written as the product of (n-k) consecutive integers. N = ( k + 1 ) ! 1 N=(k+1)!-1

That is interesting and true. Could you explain further?

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 6 years, 9 months ago

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If we want to maximize n, we need to make it n ! = ( n + 1 ) ! ( k + 1 ) ! n!=\frac{(n+1)!}{(k+1)!} . Also, because ( n + 1 ) ! = ( n + 1 ) n ! (n+1)!=(n+1)n! , we can solve for n from here.

n ! = ( n + 1 ) n ! ( k + 1 ) ! n!=\frac{(n+1)n!}{(k+1)!}

1 = ( n + 1 ) ( k + 1 ) ! 1=\frac{(n+1)}{(k+1)!}

( k + 1 ) ! 1 = n (k+1)!-1=n

Trevor Arashiro - 6 years, 9 months ago

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  • why is that n! supposed to equal to (n+1)!/(k+1)!, ??
  • I don't get it, can u give more specific explanation, plz ? Thank u.

Nguyễn Phát - 6 years, 8 months ago

Now from a logical stand point, we see that the only digits that can be different between the factorials are the first k+1 digits. Because if the highest digits in each factorial are equal, one will be greater than the other (assuming k doesn't equal 1 or 0) so we divide one by the first k digits, then we multiply it by n+1 and divide by k+1

Trevor Arashiro - 6 years, 9 months ago
Joel Tan
Sep 3, 2014

Consider n = 23 n=23 . 5 × 6 × 7 × . . . × 23 × 24 = 24 ! 4 ! = 23 ! 5×6×7×...×23×24=\frac {24!}{4!}=23! hence it is possible.

Suppose n > 23 n> 23 .

Then 4 × 5 × 6 × . . . × n = n ! 3 ! < n ! 4×5×6×...×n=\frac {n!}{3!}<n! are n 3 n-3 consecutive numbers with product less than n ! n! . This means the smallest among the n 3 n-3 numbers is at least 5.

But 5 × 6 × 7 × . . . × ( n + 1 ) = n ! 4 ! × ( n + 1 ) > n ! 4 ! × 25 > n ! 5×6×7×...×(n+1)=\frac {n!}{4!}×(n+1)>\frac {n!}{4!}×25> n! , so there exists no such n 3 n-3 consecutive numbers.

In conclusion, the answer is 23.

Sorry, it should be n ! 4 ! × ( n + 1 ) n ! 4 ! × 25 \frac {n!}{4!}×(n+1)\geq\frac {n!}{4!}×25

Joel Tan - 6 years, 9 months ago

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you can edit your solution by clicking that tiny pencil in the top right

Trevor Arashiro - 6 years, 9 months ago
Caleb Townsend
Mar 4, 2015

I will start by saying my solution is not as concise or clever as the others. But it led to some interesting things I've never seen before. I set it up with an equation using the Pochhammer function, m ( m + 1 ) n 4 = n ! m(m+1)_{n-4} = n! considering only the greater part of the first quadrant. Due to the asymptotic nature of this relation, there is not a solution at m = 4 , m =4, but there is at m = 5. m=5. Sure enough, the solution is at ( 5 , 23 ) . \boxed{(5,23)}.

Now here's the interesting part. Unless my calculator is mistaken, the graph makes a very very very nice pattern in the other quadrants (of course, substituting the gamma function for factorial). In fact, I might even put it on a quilt!

Carsten Meyer
Sep 19, 2019

Let k : = 3 k:=3 and write the n k n-k consecutive integers as ( n + i ) ; ; ( i + k + 1 ) , p i : = ( n + i ) ( i + k + 1 ) = ( n + i ) ! ( k + i ) ! , p 0 = n ! k ! < n ! \begin{aligned} (n+i);\:\ldots;\: (i+k+1),&&&&&&&& p_i&:=(n+i)\cdot\ldots\cdot (i+k+1)=\frac{(n+i)!}{(k+i)!},&&&p_0&=\frac{n!}{k!}<n! \end{aligned}

Clearly p i p_i increases as i i increases, so if p 1 > n ! p_1>n! , we will not find a solution: p 1 ! n ! ( n + 1 ) ! ( k + 1 ) ! ! n ! n ! ( k + 1 ) ! 1 \begin{aligned} p_1&\overset{!}{\leq}n! & \Rightarrow&& \frac{(n+1)!}{(k+1)!}&\overset{!}{\leq}n!&\Rightarrow&&n&\overset{!}{\leq}(k+1)!-1 \end{aligned}

Luckily the factorial of the maximum value n = ( k + 1 ) ! 1 ( ) n=(k+1)!-1\quad (*) can be represented by n ! = n ( k + 2 ) ( k + 1 ) ! = ( ) ( n + 1 ) n ( k + 2 ) ( n k ) consecutive integers! n!=n\cdot\ldots\cdot (k+2)\cdot \red{(k+1)!}\underset{(*)}{=}\red{(n+1)}\cdot n\cdot\ldots\cdot (k+2)\qquad|(n-k)\text{ consecutive integers!}

and the answer is n = ( 3 + 1 ) ! 1 = 23 n=(3+1)!-1=\boxed{23}

We have to find a number p p such that satisfies the equality n ! = ( p + n ) ( p 1 + n ) ( p 2 + n ) ( p ( n 4 ) + n ) n!=(p+n)(p-1+n)(p-2+n)\cdots(p-(n-4)+n) , where p 1 p\geq1 . However, by checking we find, for n = 4 n=4 , p = 20 p=20 , for n = 6 n=6 , p = 4 p=4 , for n = 7 n=7 , p = 3 p=3 , for n = 23 n=23 , p = 1 p=1 , so we must stop here, and conclude, the required result is n = 23 n=23 .

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