Ball Falling On Inclined Ramp

From a resting state, a small ball falls vertically on an inclined ramp of angle θ \theta , in respect to the horizontal, resulting in several elastic collisions.

If d d is the initial vertical distance from the ball to the ramp, find the distance between the n th n^{\text{th}} point of collision and the first point of collision in a function of d d , n n and θ . \theta.

This question appeared on ITA's 2014 Physics Paper, and is inspired by a question from Saraeva's book "Problemas Selecionados de Fisica Elementar".

2 d n 2 tan θ 2dn^2 \tan{\theta} 2 d ( n 1 ) 2 tan 2 θ 2d(n-1)^2 \tan{2 \theta} 4 d n ( n 1 ) tan ( π 2 θ ) 4dn(n-1) \tan{(\frac{\pi}{2} - \theta)} 4 d n ( n 1 ) tan θ 4dn(n-1) \tan{\theta}

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3 solutions

Anish Puthuraya
Jan 21, 2014

This problem can be solved in the orthodox way, but since this is a Multiple Choice problem, I would prefer (not that much) to use the following method of thinking.

First of all, check the boundary cases.

\bullet When θ = 0 \theta=0 ,
Clearly there is going to be collisions at the same point, and hence, the distance between consecutive collision points should be zero .

\bullet When θ = π 2 \theta=\frac{\pi}{2} ,
The ball is just going to fall parallel to the wall forever. Hence, there is not going to be any collision at all. Hence, the distance between consecutive collision points should tend to \infty .

\bullet Also, when n = 1 n=1 ,
the problem asks us to find out the distance between the 1st collision point and the 1st collision point, which, clearly is zero .

Analyzing the options, We find that only 4 d n ( n 1 ) tan θ 4dn(n-1)\tan{\theta} satisfies all the above conditions.

NOTE: This might not be a good solution, but I just wanted to show some other unorthodox ways of solving a certain problem. I am currently studying for IIT-JEE, which is a tough exam. And here, it is pretty orthodox to solve a problem this way. Maybe, I will post another solution presenting the correct way of solving this problem. But, anyways, sorry if this isn't good.

what i got as an answer is 4dn(n-1)sin(theta)

Cba Bhanumitra - 7 years, 4 months ago

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me too

Priyesh Pandey - 7 years, 1 month ago

I too solved it like this :P

But is this answer really correct? Whenever I try to calculate the actual expression, I end up with a s i n θ sin\theta and not a t a n θ tan\theta .

Can anyone please show the REAL method to solve this?

Maharnab Mitra - 7 years, 4 months ago

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I really don't think that this answer is correct. I tried it several times before adapting the above method as a last resort.

The answer I get for the distance between the 1st and the 2nd point of collision is,

d 1 = 4 d sin θ ( 1 + cos θ ) d_1 = 4d\sin\theta(1+\cos\theta)

If anyone else gets this answer, please reply.!

Anish Puthuraya - 7 years, 4 months ago

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Got the same :-)

Maharnab Mitra - 7 years, 3 months ago

Maharnab and Anish,

I'm sorry, but I only have the answer in portuguese . I think you can still understand the drawings and the formulae.

PS: Even though this question looks very new (feauted in 2013/2014 paper), an almost identical problem is in Saraeva's Problemas Selecionados de Fisica Elementar (49th question).

Guilherme Dela Corte - 7 years, 4 months ago

I also got these one .

Arghyanil Dey - 7 years, 1 month ago

I agree, it should be sin, not tan. I calculated properly for n=1 and got 8dsin(theta). So all the options are wrong. Of course, in IITJEE, we will get marks for attempting the question if the question is wrong!

Rohan Rao - 7 years, 4 months ago

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you are absolutely right .8dsin(theta) is the range of first parabola after first collision.

Sumit Kumar - 7 years, 3 months ago

art of substitution XD it helps alot in jee

akash omble - 7 years, 3 months ago

4dn(n-1)sin(theta) is the rite answer

akash omble - 7 years, 3 months ago
Meet Udeshi
Jan 26, 2014

Acceleration along the incline is g sin θ g\sin\theta , and acceleration perpendicular to incline is $g\cos\theta$.

Time taken till the n t h n^{th} collision is equal to t n = ( 2 n 1 ) 2 d g cos θ t_n=(2n-1)\sqrt{\frac{2d}{g\cos\theta}} So distance covered along incline till the $n^{th}$ collision from initial position is s = 1 2 g sin θ t n 2 s=\frac 12 g\sin\theta t_n^2 distance covered from first collision is s 1 = 1 2 g sin θ ( t n 2 t 1 2 ) = 4 d n ( n 1 ) tan θ s_1=\frac 12 g\sin\theta (t_n^2-t_1^2)=4dn(n-1)\tan\theta

how did u get the tn?

Techwit Shah - 7 years, 4 months ago

Let the y axis be perpendicular to the incline. a y = g . cos θ a_y=g.\cos\theta v y , i = 2 g d . cos θ v_{y,i}=\sqrt {2gd}.\cos\theta t b o u n c e = 2. v y , i a y t_{bounce}=\frac{2.v_{y,i}}{a_y}

The ball makes (n-1) bounces between the 1st and the nth collisions, thus t 1 n = ( n 1 ) . 2. 2 d g t_{1\rightarrow n}=(n-1).2.\sqrt{\frac{2d}{g}} How did you get your value of time? Does it also include time taken to reach the incline?

Ketan Kanishka - 7 years, 3 months ago

I think here's how he got tn: Since this is an elastic collision, energy is conserved, so the ball always bounces up to height d (the height at which it is dropped) for each collision. Therefore using the equation s = ut + 0.5at^2, where s = d, u = 0 and a = gcosθ, rearrange to derive t = sqroot(2d/gcosθ). Next we observe a pattern: When n = 1, d = 1 When n = 2, d = 1 + 2 = 3 When n = 3, d = 3 + 2 = 5 ... and so on. Thus d = 2n - 1, and tn = d * sqroot(2d/gcosθ) = (2n - 1) * sqroot(2d/gcosθ).

Chee HY - 7 years, 2 months ago

vertical distance between first and Nth collision point will be== 4dn(n-1)(sin(theta))^2

can anybody please expain me hw to get Tn....i still didnt understand

manish bhargao - 7 years, 2 months ago

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