João's functional equation

Algebra Level 2

Let f f be a function from the positive integers to the positive integers that satisfies the property f ( x + y ) = f ( x ) f ( y ) f (x + y) = f (x) f (y)

for all pairs of positive integers ( x , y ) (x,y) . If we are given that f ( 2 ) = 9 f(2) = 9 , what is the value of f ( 5 ) f(5) ?

This problem is posed by João B .


The answer is 243.

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14 solutions

Daniel Liu
Oct 13, 2013

We will attempt to arrive at f ( 5 ) f(5) through repeated plugging in of f ( x + y ) = f ( x ) f ( y ) f(x+y)=f(x)f(y) .

Since f ( 2 ) = f ( 1 + 1 ) f(2)=f(1+1) we have f ( 2 ) = f ( 1 + 1 ) = f ( 1 ) f ( 1 ) = 9 f(2)=f(1+1)=f(1)f(1)=9 ; therefore f ( 1 ) = 3 f(1)=3 .

(We cannot have f ( 1 ) = 3 f(1)=-3 because the function maps positive integers to positive integers.)

Now we multiply f ( 1 ) f ( 2 ) = f ( 1 + 2 ) = f ( 3 ) = 3 × 9 = 27 f(1)f(2)=f(1+2)=f(3)=3\times 9=27 .

Similarly, multiply f ( 2 ) f ( 3 ) = f ( 2 + 3 ) = f ( 5 ) = 9 × 27 = 243 f(2)f(3)=f(2+3)=f(5)=9\times 27=\boxed{243} and we are done.

Great that you pointed out why f ( 1 ) 3 f(1) \neq -3 . In this problem, the domain and codomain of the function are extremely important.

If f f was a function from the integers to the reals, then we could have f ( n ) = ( 3 ) n f(n) = (-3)^n .

What if f f was a function from the reals to the reals satisfying f ( x + y ) = f ( x ) f ( y ) f(x+y) = f(x) f(y) ? Can we have f ( x ) = ( 3 ) n f(x) = (-3)^n ?

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 7 months ago

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First sentence, don't you mean f ( 1 ) 3 f(1)\neq-3 ?

Justin Wong - 7 years, 7 months ago

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That's what I'm thinking!

Akshat Jain - 7 years, 7 months ago
Akshat Jain
Oct 16, 2013

Firstly, it is given- f ( 2 ) = 9 f(2) = 9 We can simplify it to get-

f ( 1 + 1 ) = 9 f(1 + 1) = 9

f ( 1 ) 2 = 9 f(1)^2 = 9

f ( 1 ) = 3 f(1) = 3 (Since f ( 1 ) f(1) can't be negative.)

Using it furthur in-

f ( 5 ) = f ( 4 + 1 ) f(5) = f(4 + 1)

f ( 5 ) = f ( 4 ) f ( 1 ) f(5) = f(4)f(1)

f ( 5 ) = f ( 2 + 2 ) f ( 1 ) f(5) = f(2 + 2)f(1)

f ( 5 ) = f ( 2 ) f ( 2 ) f ( 1 ) f(5) = f(2)f(2)f(1)

f ( 5 ) = 9 × 9 × 3 f(5) = 9 \times 9 \times 3

Therefore, f ( 5 ) = 243 f(5) = \fbox{243} .

Berubah Baik
Oct 13, 2013

f (x + y) = f(x)f(y) is exposional function, so

f(x + y) = a^(x+y) such that

f(2) = 9

f(2) = 3^2

f(5) = 3^5

f(5) = 243

but this trick may not every time so be careful dear Berubah B.

Madhukar Thalore - 7 years, 8 months ago

You have to prove it for integers atleast.

A Brilliant Member - 7 years, 7 months ago
Justin Wong
Oct 13, 2013

Starting with f ( 2 ) = 9 f(2)=9 , it can be expressed as f ( x + y ) = f ( x ) f ( y ) f(x+y)=f(x)f(y) . Since x x and y y must be positive, the only two numbers satisfying this are 1 1 and 1 1 . Plugging in, f ( 2 ) = f ( 1 ) f ( 1 ) = 9 f(2)=f(1)f(1)=9 . Taking the square root, f ( 1 ) = ± 3 f(1)=\pm3 . Since the function is from the positive integers to the positive integers, the positive solution of 3 3 is the only acceptable one.

Now for f ( 5 ) f(5) , it can be expressed as f ( 4 ) f ( 1 ) f(4)f(1) . That can be expressed as f ( 3 ) f ( 1 ) f(3)f(1) and so on, until f ( 2 ) = f ( 1 ) f ( 1 ) f(2)=f(1)f(1) . Substituting in the values, we get f ( 5 ) = [ f ( 1 ) ] 5 f(5)=[f(1)]^5 . Substituting for f ( 1 ) f(1) , f ( 5 ) = 3 5 f(5)=3^5 or 243 243 .

The statement of "Since x x and y y must be positive, the only two numbers satisfying this are 1 and 1." is confusing, and not needed in the proof. Instead, you should say "Substituting x = , y = 1 x=, y=1 , we get ... "

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 7 months ago

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Ok, thank you.

Justin Wong - 7 years, 7 months ago
Aaghaz Mahajan
Mar 8, 2018

And Finally by Induction, we can generalize that f(x)=3^x

Kelvin Ng
Oct 13, 2013

f(1+1)=f(1)*f(1)=(f(1))^2

  f(2)=9
  (f(1))^2=9
   f(1)=3
   f(2)=9
   f(3)=f(2+1)=f(2)*f(1)
   =(9)(3)=27

. . . . f(5)=f(4+1) =f(4)*f(1) =f(2)f(2)f(1) =(9) (9)( 3) =243

You have to enclose each line within brackets for latex to appear.

A Brilliant Member - 7 years, 7 months ago
Daniel Chiu
Oct 13, 2013

Since f ( 2 ) = 9 f(2)=9 , f ( 2 ) = f ( 1 + 1 ) = f ( 1 ) 2 = 9 f(2)=f(1+1)=f(1)^2=9 Then, f ( 1 ) = 3 f(1)=3 . Now, f ( x + 1 ) = 3 f ( x ) f(x+1)=3f(x) Then, f ( 5 ) = 3 f ( 4 ) = 9 f ( 3 ) = 27 f ( 2 ) = 243 f(5)=3f(4)=9f(3)=27f(2)=\boxed{243}

Mayankk Bhagat
Jan 25, 2014

this condition can only be fulfilled when f(x) is an exponential function ............. that is f(x) = (a)^x .... it is given that f(2) = 9............ therefore (a)^2=9 implies a=3. now calculate ( 3)^5

Alexander Sludds
Dec 17, 2013

An easy way to solve this is to start with what you know and work backwards. We know that since 2=1+1 we can substitute to find that f ( 2 ) = f ( 1 ) 2 f(2)=f(1)^2 . Meaning that f ( 1 ) = 3 f(1)=3 . Note that f as a function is positive so the square root of 9 must be positive. So, we are going to work backwards. f ( 5 ) = f ( 3 ) f ( 2 ) f(5)=f(3)f(2) which is the same as f ( 5 ) = 9 f ( 3 ) f(5)=9*f(3) . Since f ( 3 ) = f ( 1 ) f ( 2 ) = 27 f(3)=f(1)f(2)=27 we can substitute to find that f ( 5 ) = 3 5 = 243 f(5)=3^5=243 .

Santiago Luna
Oct 19, 2013

If f(2) = 9, we may accept that x+y = 2 (property) and as x and y are positive integers, they can on only have the value of one x = y = 1. Then: f(2) = f(1+1) = f(1) f(1) = 9, f(1) f(1) = 9 f(1)^2 = 9 f(1) = 3 (It cannot be -3 because the function is from positive integers to positive integers).

Now, we may decompose f(5) in the next way: f(5) = f(2+2+1) = f(2) f(2) f(1) We know: f(2) = 9 and f(1) = 3 So, f(5) = 9 9 3 f(5) = 243

f ( 2 ) = f ( 1 + 1 ) = f ( 1 ) f ( 1 ) f(2)=f(1+1)=f(1)f(1) . Thus f ( 1 ) f ( 1 ) = f 2 ( 1 ) = 9 f(1)f(1)=f^2(1)=9 and f ( 1 ) = 9 = 3 f(1)=\sqrt 9=3 . f ( 5 ) = f ( 2 + 2 + 1 ) = f ( 2 ) f ( 2 ) f ( 1 ) = 9 × 9 × 3 = 243 f(5)=f(2+2+1)=f(2)f(2)f(1)=9 \times 9 \times 3=243

Michelle Tan
Oct 14, 2013

You are given that f(2) = 9 This can be rewritten as f(1+1)=9 -> f(1)*f(1)=9 -> f(1)^2=9 -> f(1)=3

You are trying to find f(5) This can be rewritten as f(1)^5

We already found that f(1)=3, so f(1)^5 = 243

Make sure you explain why f ( 1 ) 3 f(1) \neq 3 .

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 7 months ago
Sablis Salam
Oct 14, 2013

f(4) = f(2)f(2) = 9 x 9 = 81

f(4) = f(3)f(1) = f(2)f(1)f(1)

f(1)f(1) = 9

f(1) = 3

f(3) = f(1)f(2) = 3 x 9 = 27

f(5) = f(2)f(3) = 9 x 27 = 243

Carl Denton
Oct 13, 2013

f ( 2 ) = f ( 1 + 1 ) = 9 = 3 3 f(2) = f(1+1) = 9 = 3 * 3 . Thus, f ( 1 ) = 3 f(1) = 3 and f ( 5 ) = f ( 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 ) = 3 5 = 243 f(5) = f(1+1+1+1+1) = 3^5 = 243 .

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