Limits, factorials, exponents

Calculus Level 2

lim n ( n ! n n ) 1 n = ? \lim_{n\to\infty} \left( \dfrac{n!}{n^n} \right)^{\dfrac{1}{n}} = \ ?


Bonus : Try converting the limit to a Riemann sum.

ln 2 \ln{2} ln 2 \ln{\sqrt{2}} e 1 e^{-1} e 2 e^{\sqrt{2}}

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3 solutions

Discussions for this problem are now closed

Raj Magesh
Dec 20, 2014

y = lim n ( n ! n n ) 1 n y=\lim_{n\to\infty} \left( \dfrac{n!}{n^n} \right)^{\dfrac{1}{n}}

ln y = lim n 1 n ln ( 1 × 2 × × n n × n × × n ) \ln{y}= \lim_{n\to\infty} \dfrac{1}{n} \ln{\left(\dfrac{1 \times 2 \times \dots \times n}{n \times n \times \dots \times n}\right)}

ln y = lim n 1 n ( ln 1 n + ln 2 n + + ln n n ) \ln{y}=\lim_{n\to\infty} \dfrac{1}{n} \left(\ln{\dfrac{1}{n}} +\ln{\dfrac{2}{n}} + \dots + \ln{\dfrac{n}{n}}\right)

ln y = lim n 1 n k = 1 n ln k n \ln{y}= \lim_{n\to\infty} \dfrac{1}{n} \sum_{k=1}^{n} \ln{\dfrac{k}{n}}

We know that such an infinite summation can be converted into an integral by the fundamental definition of integration as a limit of an infinite sum:

lim n 1 n k = 1 n f ( k n ) = 0 1 f ( x ) d x \lim_{n\to\infty} \dfrac{1}{n} \sum_{k=1}^{n} f\left(\dfrac{k}{n}\right) = \int_{0}^{1} f(x) dx

x = k n d x = 1 n x=\dfrac{k}{n} \Rightarrow dx=\dfrac{1}{n}

Hence,

ln y = 0 1 ln x d x = [ x ln x x ] 0 1 = 1 \begin{aligned} \ln{y} &= \int_{0}^{1} \ln{x} dx \\ &= \left[ x \ln{x}-x \right]_{0}^{1} \\ &= -1 \end{aligned}

Note that substituting the lower limit requires us to evaluate the following:

lim x 0 x ln x = 0 \lim_{x\to 0} x \ln{x} = 0

y = e 1 \Longrightarrow y = \boxed{e^{-1}}

Here is how I did it: I used the inequality 1 e n < n ! n n < n e n \frac{1}{e^n}<\frac{n!}{n^n}<\frac{n}{e^n} (I), took nth roots and then took the limit to obtain the answer, 1 e \frac{1}{e} . To prove (I), take logs throughout to obtain n < k = 1 n ln k n ln n < ln n n -n<\sum_{k=1}^{n}\ln{k}-n\ln{n}<\ln{n}-n . Rearrange the terms to find k = 1 n 1 ln k < n ln n n < k = 1 n ln k \sum_{k=1}^{n-1}\ln{k}<n\ln{n}-n<\sum_{k=1}^{n}\ln{k} . Now the middle term is 1 n ln x d x \int\limits_{1}^{n} \ln{x}dx . The RHS and LHS are upper and lower Riemann sums for this integral, proving our claim.

Otto Bretscher - 6 years, 2 months ago

Nice application of limit as a sum

Kïñshük Sïñgh - 6 years, 5 months ago

really a very nice application of many concepts

Ilaya S - 6 years, 5 months ago

The best solution I saw :D Keep up the good work

AccelNano Lim Loong - 6 years, 4 months ago

How do you know that you can express the improper integral 0 1 ln ( x ) d x \int_{0}^{1} \ln(x) dx as the limit of a Riemann sum? More specifically, how do you know that 0 1 ln x d x = lim n 1 n k = 1 n ln ( k n ) \int\limits_0^1\ln{x}dx =\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{1}{n} \sum_{k=1}^{n}\ln(\frac{k}{n}) ?

Otto Bretscher - 6 years, 2 months ago

Purely genius! I am totally impressed by your solution!

Blackpen Redpen - 6 years, 4 months ago

Beautiful question, and great solution !!

Bhargav Upadhyay - 6 years, 4 months ago

Smart exercise thank you for sharing like this exercise here

Ramez Hindi - 6 years, 2 months ago

Beautiful Question!

Hem Shailabh Sahu - 6 years, 2 months ago

How did you get the bounds of the integral?

Angelo Marco Ramoso - 6 years, 5 months ago

We consider the limiting value of k n \frac{k}{n} as k ranges over its possible values. At the beginning, k = 1 k=1 and n n \to \infty . Hence, lim n k n = 0 \lim_{n\to \infty} \frac{k}{n} = 0 . This gives us the lower limit as 0.

Similarly, at the ending, k = n k=n and n n \to \infty . Hence, lim n k n = 1 \lim_{n \to \infty} \frac{k}{n} =1 . This gives us the upper limit as 1. If k k had ranged from 1 1 to 3 n 3n , the upper limit would have been 3.

Raj Magesh - 6 years, 5 months ago

Ahhh. Got it. Thanks. :D

Angelo Marco Ramoso - 6 years, 5 months ago

This can be done with Stolz-Cesaro or Stirling's but Stirling's is much more elegant.

From Stirling's formula we know that n ! 2 π n n n e n n! \sim \sqrt{2\pi n} n^n e^{-n} So the limit can be written as lim n ( 2 π n n n n n e n ) 1 / n \lim_{n \to \infty} \left( \frac{\sqrt{2\pi n} n^n }{n^n e^n}\right)^{1/n} And simplifying down we get lim n e 1 ( 2 π ) 1 / 2 n n 1 / 2 n \lim_{n\to \infty}e^{-1} (2 \pi)^{1/2n}n^{1/2n} The product on the right will go to 1 1 which is not difficult to show. Thus the answer is e 1 \boxed{e^{-1}}

Nice working!

Joel Yip - 6 years, 3 months ago
Kartik Sharma
Dec 20, 2014

Well, first of all, nice question!

Let n ! n n 1 n = y {\frac{n!}{{n}^{n}}}^{\frac{1}{n}} = y

1 n ( l n ( n ! n n ) ) = l n y \frac{1}{n}(ln(\frac{n!}{{n}^{n}})) = ln y

e 1 n ( l n ( n ! n n ) ) = y {e}^{\frac{1}{n}(ln(\frac{n!}{{n}^{n}}))} = y

Now we need to find l i m n y {lim}_{n\to\infty} y

We can find the power till infinity and then evaluate with e.

Hence, we need to find

l i m n 1 n ( l n ( n ! n n ) ) {lim}_{n\to\infty} \frac{1}{n}(ln(\frac{n!}{{n}^{n}}))

= l i m n ( l n ( n ! ) l n ( n n ) n = {lim}_{n\to\infty} \frac{(ln(n!) - ln({n}^{n})}{n}

Using L'Hopital's rule,

= l i m n ( d ( l n ( n ! ) ) d n ( l n ( n ) + 1 ) ) = {lim}_{n\to\infty} (\frac{d(ln(n!))}{dn} - (ln(n) +1)) [ l n ( n n ) = n l n ( n ) ln({n}^{n}) = nln(n) , and then we can use product rule to evaluate its derivative]

= l i m n ( d ( l n ( n ! ) ) d n l i m n ( l n n ) 1 = {lim}_{n\to\infty} (\frac{d(ln(n!))}{dn} - {lim}_{n\to\infty} (ln n) -1

We know that

l i m n ( l n n ) = {lim}_{n\to\infty} (ln n) = \infty

and

l i m n ( d ( l n ( n ! ) ) d n = {lim}_{n\to\infty} (\frac{d(ln(n!))}{dn} = \infty (because l n ( n ! ) = l n ( n ) + l n ( n 1 ) + l n ( n 2 ) . . . . . l n ( 2 ) + l n ( 1 ) ln(n!) = ln(n) + ln(n-1) + ln(n-2)..... ln(2) + ln(1) and so when we take its derivative and then take the limit to infinity, the limit will go to \infty )*

As a result,

= 1 = \infty - \infty -1

= 1 = -1

Now, don't forget that this is the power of e and the whole limit will be -

= e 1 = \boxed{{e}^{-1}}

Moderator note:

This solution is wrong. You can't perform arithmetic on infinities nor could you perform arithmetic on two divergent series.

Underrated, I think!

Kartik Sharma - 6 years, 5 months ago

Hey Kartik, thanks! I find myself puzzling over the last few steps. Is it legal to subtract infinity from infinity like that?

The limit of d d n ln n ! \frac{d}{dn}\ln {n!} as n goes to infinity is indeed infinity (by applying the limit-of-infinite-sum-is-an-integral principle) and the limit of ln n \ln{n} as n approaches infinity is also infinity, but are they the same infinity?

I seem to recall that \infty - \infty is an indeterminate form and cannot be evaluated. Perhaps the two limits that approach infinity should be combined and then evaluated to avoid this?

Could you explain how the question of the indeterminate form can be resolved? The solution I posted avoids this by splitting the factorial in the initial step itself instead of later.

Raj Magesh - 6 years, 5 months ago

Its defined on infinity

Rohit Singh - 6 years, 5 months ago

how can you substract infinite - infinite?

Ap Aggrawal - 6 years, 4 months ago

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