Lost in space

Geometry Level 3

A point P P in R 3 \mathbb{R}^{3} has distances of 3 , 7 , 8 , 9 3,7,8,9 and 11 11 from five of the vertices of a regular octahedron. If the distance from the sixth vertex of the octahedron to P P is a \sqrt{a} , where a a is a positive, square-free integer, then find a a .


The answer is 66.

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2 solutions

* Note: This problem and solution have been edited due to concerns raised by Maria Kozlowska. Thanks go to her for catching my error and proposing a suitable remedy to save the question from getting truly "Lost in Space" Also, apologies to Bant Paswan for not following up on similar concerns he raised so long ago. *

We know from the 3-D version of the British Flag Theorem that if A B C D ABCD is a square in space and P P is any point then ( A P ) 2 + ( C P ) 2 = ( B P ) 2 + ( D P ) 2 . (AP)^{2} + (CP)^{2} = (BP)^{2} + (DP)^{2}.

Now of any five vertices of an octahedron, four must form a square, so we just need to go through the given distances to find two distinct pairs of distances whose squares sum to the same value. We find that 3 2 + 1 1 2 = 7 2 + 9 2 = 130 3^{2} + 11^{2} = 7^{2} + 9^{2} = 130 is the only possibility.

So suppose, without loss of generality, that A P = 3 , C P = 11 , B P = 7 AP = 3, CP = 11, BP = 7 and D P = 9. DP = 9. Then with the other two vertices of the octahedron being E E and F F we must also have A E C F AECF be a square. So assigning E P = 8 EP = 8 , (the last of the given distances), by the BFT we have that

( A P ) 2 + ( C P ) 2 = ( E P ) 2 + ( F P ) 2 3 2 + 1 1 2 = 8 2 + ( F P ) 2 ( F P ) 2 = 66 . (AP)^{2} + (CP)^{2} = (EP)^{2} + (FP)^{2} \Longrightarrow 3^{2} + 11^{2} = 8^{2} + (FP)^{2} \Longrightarrow (FP)^{2} = \boxed{66}.

Sir, I find in a regular octahedron if A P = 3 AP = 3 , C P = 11 CP = 11 , B P = 7 BP = 7 and D P = 9 DP = 9 then E P EP 65 833 \sqrt{65-\sqrt{833}} = 6.011510677 6.011510677

Rahul Paswan - 5 years, 11 months ago

By R^3 , do you mean 3-D space , bro ?

Honey Singh - 6 years, 3 months ago

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Yes, that's correct. I just edited it to show R 3 \mathbb{R}^{3} , which is the standard representation.

Brian Charlesworth - 6 years, 3 months ago

Could you please provide edge length of this octahedron?

Maria Kozlowska - 4 years, 6 months ago
Jakub Kocák
Feb 22, 2015

Let's place origin of Cartesian coordinate system in the middle of the octahedron a the axes will go through three vertices. Cartesian coordinates of vertices will be [ ± d , 0 , 0 ] ; [ 0 , ± d , 0 ] [\pm d,0,0]; [0,\pm d,0] and [ 0 , 0 , ± d ] [0,0,\pm d] , where d d is some positive real number. Let the position of the point P P be [ x , y , z ] [x,y,z] . Then the square of distances from all six vertices will be

r 1 2 = ( x + d ) 2 + y 2 + z 2 = x 2 + 2 x d + d 2 + y 2 + z 2 , r_1^2 = (x+d)^2 + y^2 + z^2 = x^2 + 2 x d + d^2 + y^2 + z^2 \, ,

r 2 2 = ( x d ) 2 + y 2 + z 2 = x 2 2 x d + d 2 + y 2 + z 2 , r_2^2 = (x-d)^2 + y^2 + z^2 = x^2 - 2 x d + d^2 + y^2 + z^2 \, ,

r 3 2 = x 2 + ( y + d ) 2 + z 2 = x 2 + y 2 + 2 y d + d 2 + z 2 , r_3^2 = x^2 + (y+d)^2 + z^2 = x^2 + y^2 + 2 y d + d^2+ z^2 \, ,

r 4 2 = x 2 + ( y d ) 2 + z 2 = x 2 + y 2 2 y d + d 2 + z 2 , r_4^2 = x^2 + (y-d)^2 + z^2 = x^2 + y^2 - 2 y d + d^2 + z^2 \, ,

r 5 2 = x 2 + y 2 + ( z + d ) 2 = x 2 + y 2 + z 2 + 2 z d + d 2 , r_5^2 = x^2 + y^2 + (z+d)^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 + 2 z d + d^2\, ,

r 6 2 = x 2 + y 2 + ( z d ) 2 = x 2 + y 2 + z 2 2 z d + d 2 . r_6^2 = x^2 + y^2 + (z-d)^2 = x^2 + y^2 + z^2 - 2 z d + d^2 \, .

When we add squares of distances from opposite vertices, we obtain same number

r 1 2 + r 2 2 = 2 x 2 + 2 y 2 + 2 z 2 + 2 d 2 , r_1^2 + r_2^2 = 2 x^2 + 2 y^2 + 2 z^2 + 2 d^2 \, ,

r 3 2 + r 4 2 = 2 x 2 + 2 y 2 + 2 z 2 + 2 d 2 , r_3^2 + r_4^2 = 2 x^2 + 2 y^2 + 2 z^2 + 2 d^2 \, ,

r 5 2 + r 6 2 = 2 x 2 + 2 y 2 + 2 z 2 + 2 d 2 . r_5^2 + r_6^2 = 2 x^2 + 2 y^2 + 2 z^2 + 2 d^2 \, .

Now we only need to find out, which distances are paired. Using simple table

3 2 3^2 6 2 6^2 7 2 7^2 9 2 9^2 1 1 2 11^2
3 2 3^2 - 45 58 90 130
6 2 6^2 - - 85 117 157
7 2 7^2 - - - 130 170
9 2 9^2 - - - - 202
1 1 2 11^2 - - - - -

we obtain

3 2 + 1 1 2 = 7 2 + 9 2 = 6 2 + a = 130 , 3^2 + 11^2 = 7^2 + 9^2 = 6^2 + a = 130 \, ,

from where we finally have answer

a = 130 6 2 = 94 . a = 130 - 6^2 = \underline{94} \, .

Nice solution, Jakub; thanks for posting it. I think this more or less qualifies as a proof of the 3-D version of the British Flag Theorem. :)

Brian Charlesworth - 6 years, 3 months ago

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Thank you. I have never heard of that theorem before revealing solutions. So I'm glad I have learned that thanks to your solution. :-) I always like to see different solutions under problems even though they are basically same process but with different argumentation. This is one of the main reasons I like this portal. :-)

Jakub Kocák - 6 years, 3 months ago

hmmm..wondering if a solution circumscribing a circle around the octahedron by projecting it into R^2 to look like a square and using the secant side length theorems and other secant/circle theorems to solve the problem...

chris recupero - 4 years ago

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