Monkey want bananas!

A bunch of bananas of total weight W W is hung at one end of a string passing over a perfectly smooth pulley. At the other end, a monkey starts climbing up the rope at a constant acceleration and covers 16 ft in 2 seconds.

If the bananas always remain at rest, find the weight of the monkey.

Assume that g = 32 ft/s 2 . g=32 ~ \text{ft/s}^2.

W 5 \dfrac{W}{5} 2 W 5 \dfrac{2W}{5} 4 W 5 \dfrac{4W}{5} W W 5 W 4 \dfrac{5W}{4}

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8 solutions

Relevant wiki: Newton's Third Law

Let the masses of the bananas and monkey be M M and m m respectively. Then the weights of the bananas and monkey are W = M g W = Mg and w = m g w = mg respectively.

Let the acceleration the monkey climbing up the rope be a a . Then using equation of motion ,

s = u t + 1 2 a t 2 16 = ( 0 ) ( 2 ) + 1 2 a ( 2 2 ) a = 8 ft/s 2 \begin{aligned} s & = ut + \frac 12 at^2 \\ 16 & = (0)(2) + \frac 12 a(2^2) \\ \implies a & = 8 \text{ ft/s}^2 \end{aligned}

Since the bananas are stationary, by Newton's third law:

m ( g + a ) = M g ( 32 + 8 ) m = 32 M m = 4 5 M m g = 4 5 M g w = 4 W 5 \begin{aligned} m(g+a)&=Mg \\ (32+8)m & = 32M \\ m &= \frac 45 M \\ mg &= \frac 45 Mg \\ \implies w &= \boxed{\dfrac {4W}5} \end{aligned}

Here the banana is stationary therefore T-mg=ma. i. e T=mg+ma. Since banana is stationary T=W this implies mg+ma=w

Sambhuti Rai - 3 years, 5 months ago

Why is the monkey assumed to be stationary. The problem statement said it had an upward acceleration. Is it because intitial velocity is assumed to be zero?

Brandon Ornelas - 3 years, 5 months ago

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You are right. The bananas are stationary. I have changed the solution.

Chew-Seong Cheong - 3 years, 5 months ago

Actually the weight of the monkey is by definition the force with which the monkey acts on the string. So the right answer is W. The same monkey will have zero weight being in a free fall: the weight depends on the situation. It's better to ask about the mass of the monkey then, if you want the problem not to be trivial.

Anton Sokolov - 3 years, 5 months ago

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In this question, weight refers to how much strong is Earth's gravitational pull on it, which is equal to m g mg .

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 5 months ago

Why is it m(g + a) and not m(g - a)? The force of gravity accelerates the monkey in a downward direction, and the monkey is climbing (accelerating) in an upward direction.

Mark Lottinville - 3 years, 5 months ago

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Here, we calculate the tension at both ends at the string. Monkey climbs the rope at a a acceleration which implies that the rope is pulled down ( goes down) at a a acceleration as well. Also, g g acts on rope. So, tension at the end of rope on monkey's side is m ( g + a ) m(g+a)

Vighnesh Raut - 3 years, 5 months ago

m(g+a)=Mg Shouldn't g be a negative quantity since it opposes the 🐒's motion?

Harsh Bhute - 3 years, 5 months ago

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Here m ( g + a ) m (g+a) is the force that the monkey exerts on the rope as it climbs up. This can be seen if we draw the free body diagram of the monkey. The rope exerts force F F upwards. The weight of the monkey is m g mg downwards. It accelerates with a a upwards, so F m g = m a F - mg = ma , or F = m ( g + a ) F = m(g +a) .

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 5 months ago

I wish I knew these formulae that you demonstrated...

A Former Brilliant Member - 3 years, 5 months ago

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You can refer to these wiki pages equations of motion and motion under constant acceleration to learn how we get the formulae.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 5 months ago

Could a monkey possibly climb with a constant acceleration (as opposed to a constant speed) after it's gone from stationary to a comfortable climbing speed? If that's a long rope, this problem is going to end up with one seriously fast-climbing monkey.

Katherine barker - 3 years, 5 months ago
Asd Asdasd
Dec 25, 2017

Technically, the problem is missing the information that the monkey covers 16 ft in 2 sec from a stationary state. Changing from "climbs" to "starts climbing" should hopefully fix that.

Thanks, it has been added to the problem.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 5 months ago

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Ok, i am apologizing for my brief answer: you see the problem? If bananas have an absolute weight, you see you can, imagine not only bananas but you can imagine concrete or stell, and it have an absolute weight, it can be calculated! weight is absolute i think, i mean a astronaut has the total weight like in space like on earth?

Trash of Bros - 3 years, 5 months ago

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What do you mean by absolute weight?

In this problem, weight implies the product of the mass of the bananas and the gravity g.

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 5 months ago

Not true, mass stays the same not weight

Chris Cheek - 3 years, 5 months ago

The bananas hhave a total weight, its absulute, is nt it?

Trash of Bros - 3 years, 5 months ago

That’s not a “technicality”, nor is the lack of info about what the bananas were doing before the monkey grabbed the rope. Another I’ll stated problem from ‘Brilliant’ (sic)

George Pickburn - 3 years, 5 months ago

Yes, agreed, as 0 could be the constant acceleration of the monkey if it leapt onto the rope gaining its speed before climbing. Or the distance and time travelled could have been given from any point on the rope.

Danny Robinson - 3 years, 5 months ago

Surely the mass of the thread has some effect since it must be added to the mass of the Bananas? The Question does not indicate that the monkey actually stops after 2 seconds - if he carries on for ever the thread is infinitely long! If he stops he is mangled by the pulley and either jams the pulley or falls off.

Peter Hall - 3 years, 5 months ago

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Or it reaches the bananas and changes the balance considerably to one side having the weights of monkey plus bananas and the other zero, at which point the monkey will descend at 24 ft/s/s. Also assuming the bananas are above the monkey otherwise it would be climbing down.

Craig Mitchell - 3 years, 5 months ago

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ROFLMAO at 24 ft/s/s

Sheila Miller - 2 years, 5 months ago

ROFLMAO at 24 ft/s/s

Sheila Miller - 2 years, 5 months ago

Imagine the monkey is running at x axis before getting on the rope, as he gets on the rope he suddenly changes his axis to y axis. Hence it can be deduced that he start from stationary.

Arbaaz shaikh - 3 years, 4 months ago

Some more comments about the wording of the problem

Firstly, from the wording itself it is not clear whether the acceleration is to be taken with respect to the rope or the pulley. It comes to our rescue that the monkey climbs just fast enough so that the bananas remain at rest, and both concepts boil down to the same thing. Secondly, in physics we would say the bananas have mass W, whereas weight is the force mg of gravity g working on a mass m.

The monkey climbs with constant acceleration a. The distance climbed then is 1 2 a t 2 \frac{1}{2}at^2 so that a = 2 × 16 / 2 2 = 8 f t / s 2 a=2×16/2^2=8 ft/s^2 .

The tension force on the rope is ( a + g ) m = 40 m (a+g)m=40m , where m is the mass of the monkey. This same tension force is holding the bananas up against gravity so 40 m = 32 W 40m=32W and m = 4 5 W m=\frac{4}{5}W .

K T - 2 years, 5 months ago
Munem Shahriar
Dec 1, 2017

Suppose the weight of the monkey is W W' and acceleration of the monkey is f f

So,

S = u t + 1 2 f t 2 S = ut+\dfrac 12 ft^2

16 = 0 × 2 + 1 2 f ( 2 ) 2 f = 8 ft/s 2 16 = 0 \times 2 + \dfrac 12 f(2)^2 \implies f = 8 ~ \text{ft/s}^2

If the tension is T , T, then the equation of motion of the monkey will be:

T W = W g × f T W = W 32 × 8 T - W' = \dfrac{W'}{g} \times f \implies T - W'= \dfrac{W'}{32} \times 8

T = W + W 4 = 5 W 4 \Rightarrow T = W' + \dfrac{W'}{4} = \dfrac{5W'}{4}

So T = 5 W 4 . . . . . . . . . . ( 1 ) T = \dfrac{5W'}{4} .......... \color{#3D99F6}(1)

Since bananas always remain at rest,

T W = 0 T = W . . . . . . . . . . ( 2 ) T - W = 0 \implies T = W .......... \color{#20A900} (2)

From ( 1 ) \color{#3D99F6} (1) and ( 2 ) , \color{#20A900} (2), we get

5 W 4 = W W = 4 W 5 \dfrac{5W'}{4} = W \implies W' = \boxed{\dfrac{4W}{5}}

What does the part where it says:

16+ 0 + 1/2 f(2)^2 do?

Sam Moss - 3 years, 5 months ago

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S = u t + 1 2 f t 2 S = ut + \dfrac 12 ft^2

Munem Shahriar - 3 years, 5 months ago

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This has come from SUVAT equations which are applicable when acceleration is constant. The equation used here is

S = u t + 1 2 a t 2 S = ut + \frac{1}{2} at^2 Here S S is the displacement of the monkey, u u is its initial speed, a a is its acceleration and t t is the time taken.

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 5 months ago

while I appreciate the idea of protecting the answer, it would be nice to know that the answer was in the discussion, and that by entering the discussion I would forfeit my right to answer the question. I feel cheated, and I did in fact arrive at the correct solution on my own.

Ben Hankinson - 3 years, 5 months ago

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Wasn't it obvious?

Muz WhitLon - 3 years, 5 months ago

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most sites that pose riddles and puzzles moderate posting the answer in the comments section if there is one. Normally the answer isn't even available, and is spoilered or removed any time someone tries to post it. I had intended to ask a question, which I realized right as I clicked the button, but at that point the site decided that I had looked at the answer. In short, no, it was not obvious. This is the first time I've seen "let's discuss this" to mean "what is the answer?"

Ben Hankinson - 3 years, 5 months ago

I cant believe this site doesnt use the metric system.

Hudi Pudi - 3 years, 5 months ago

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In this problem, the length units cancel off, so it doesn't really matter which system is used.

Pranshu Gaba - 3 years, 5 months ago

OK, so the monkey climbs 4.88 m in 2 seconds. His acceleration = 2* 4.88/4 = 2.44 m/sec/sec. The monkey's weight is W *9.81/(9.81+2.44) = W * 0.80

Omar Jette - 3 years, 5 months ago

This problem is wrong stated, so is wrong solved. If the bananas are ALWAYS at rest then they were also at rest at the beginning, when the monkey was at rest. There fore at that moment bananas and monkey weighed the same,

boreal leon - 3 years, 5 months ago

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Zero speed does not imply zero acceleration. The monkey was initially at rest but has an acceleration upwards which implies the tension in the string (weight of the bananas) is greater than the weight of the monkey.

Rohit Gupta - 3 years, 5 months ago

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If the weight of the bananas is greater than the weight of the monkey, then the monkey will not be "climbing" but will be pulled along by the falling bananas. Boreal Leon is correct.

Doug Charlton - 3 years, 5 months ago

what happens when the monkey who weighs less than the bananas reaches the top? presumably the bananas will pull the monkey or at least start descending so the monkey will fall off. JEFF

JEFF HILMER - 3 years, 5 months ago
Piero Sarti
Dec 26, 2017

So I assumed that the monkey starts from rest, someone please inform me if there is a solution that does not assume this. I don't think there is but anyways, I digress.

We start by denoting a few things.

M m M_m is the mass of the monkey.

F c F_c is the force exerted on the string by the monkey's pulling.

a m a_m is the acceleration of the monkey.

T T is the tension in the string.

a b a_b is the acceleration of the bananas.

First let's find a m a_m :

s = u t + 1 2 a t 2 s = ut + \frac{1}{2}at^2

2 s = a m t 2 2s = a_mt^2

32 = 4 a m 32 = 4a_m

a m = 8 f t a_m = 8 ft s 2 s^{-2}

Do Newton's Second Law with respect to the bananas:

T W = 0 T - W = 0 since the bananas remain at rest.

T = W T = W

Now do Newton's Second Law with respect to the monkey:

T F c M m g = M m a b T - F_c - M_mg = M_ma_b where F c = M m a m F_c = M_ma_m

W M m a m M m g = 0 W - M_ma_m - M_mg = 0 since a b = 0 a_b = 0 and T = W T = W

W = M m ( 32 + 8 ) W = M_m(32 + 8)

M m = W 40 M_m = \frac{W}{40}

Since W e i g h t m o n k e y = M m g Weight_{monkey} = M_mg

W e i g h t m o n k e y = W 40 32 = 4 W 5 Weight_{monkey} = \frac{W}{40} * 32 = \boxed{\frac{4W}{5}}

Since the bunch of bananas remain at rest, the weight of the climbing monkey has to be less. Therefore force at the monkey end will be its mass Mb (4/4)g plus the force due to its acceleration up Mm (1/4) g, which amounts 5/4 Mm g in total . At the banana side the force values Mb g.

Balancing both Mmg=4/5Mb g or in term of weights Wm= 4/5 Wb

Tadeu Manoel
Dec 29, 2017

I bet a 4 W 3 \frac{4 W}{3} solution option would trick some people :)

Harsh Bhute
Dec 28, 2017

Oops... didn't see it's already been answered...sorry.

Sourjyo Deb
Dec 27, 2017

F(net)=0

So acc=0

M(G+A)=WG M=(G+A)/G M=4W/5

Let Mm = mass of monkey, Mb = mass of bananas..... a = 2*16/(2^2) = 8, g = 32 .......Forces are equal, so Fm = Mm * (g+a) = Fb = Mb * g
.......Mm * (g+a) = Mb * g, Then Mm = Mb * g / (g+a) = Mb * 32/40
.......Since weight is proportional to mass, then Wm = 4 Wb/5

Omar Jette - 3 years, 5 months ago

None of these answers are correct. The question states that the weight of the bananas is W, but these solutions assume a MASS of W. Also, what the hell is a foot?

Mel Clifford - 3 years, 3 months ago

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