Which is greater?
3 0 0 ! or 1 0 0 3 0 0 ?
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Oh, that is really nice! Thanks for sharing a calculus area approximation solution!
Oh, Wow! That was just awesome!
Great solution
In fact you can prove (I don't know how, though!) that ( 3 n ) n ≤ n ! ≤ ( 2 n ) n
Can you attempt a proof? Thanks in advance!
can you please explain from where the inequality comes from in the equation? I'm a beginner so, please don't mind if this is a silly question.
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I was also struggling with the intermediate steps of the proof. This is what I came up with:
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Indeed, the first inequality follows directly from "right Riemann sum of an increasing function", and its a nice way to approximate the discretized sum of an integrable function.
For the second inequality, from integration by parts applied directly, ∫ 1 n ln x d x = [ x ln x − x ] 1 n = n ( ln n − ln e ) − 1 ( ln 1 − 1 ) = n ln e n + 1 > n ln e n . I'm not quite sure where your extra terms came from.
I'm sorry for the long delay; I'm not spending much time on Brilliant these days. We can give a proof by induction on n , assuming that n ! > 3 n n n . Now ( n + 1 ) ! > ( n + 1 ) 3 n n n = ( n + 1 n ) n 3 n ( n + 1 ) n + 1 = ( 1 + 1 / n ) n 1 3 n ( n + 1 ) n + 1 > 3 n + 1 ( n + 1 ) n + 1 since ( 1 + n 1 ) n < e < 3 . We have in fact shown that n ! > e n n n . I hope this brief explanation is helpful...
okay so what i pretty much did was just picture the expansion in my mind. 100^300 is 300 100s right? and 300! is every number counting down from 300. so in this theres 200 numbers greater than 100 and only 100 numbers less than 100 . so from logical deduction i assume you can figure out that 300! is larger
Approach is incorrect, kind of. If I ask you 215! And 100^215, your answer might have been wrong
Yeah, same way here.
Same here.
how would you do it for 100^200 and 200! ??
I agree, I used the same technique to guess. Because 100 multiplied by all the integers from 101 to 300 must be greater than 100^200. I estimated that the remaining integers under 100 would give at least another 50 multiples of 100 or more (e.g. 2 99 > 100, 3 98 >100, etc.). Then I confidently guessed that I have made enough multiplications greater than 100 to make up for the last 50 multiples. Still, it is an educated guess.
In response to another comment, using the same technique for 100^200 and 200! I probably would have determined that while 200! > 100^150, I don't think I would have the confidence to say that 200! > 100^200, so a more thorough check would have been needed. :)
What I thought that 300! contains 9,29, ...…99,199 and these get multipied. So there product will be larger than 300 100s( 100^300) so that was mine logic
We can use Stirling's formula to solve the problem quite nicely. For those of you that aren't familiar with the formula I will state it below: n → ∞ lim n ! → 2 π n . ( e n ) n With (geometric) convergence from above (i.e. n ! > R H S for n > 0 ) ⇒ 3 0 0 ! > 6 0 0 π . ( e 3 0 0 ) 3 0 0 > 4 3 × 1 0 0 3 0 0 > 1 0 0 3 0 0 ∴ 3 0 0 ! > 1 0 0 3 0 0
I don't see the 43 ????
I just used a scientific calculator to know the answer. Here is what I did: let x be the geometric mean of first 300 natural numbers, then we can alternatively write 300! = x 3 0 0 so if x > 100 then 300! > 1 0 0 3 0 0 and vice versa, so the geometric mean x = 3 0 0 3 0 0 ! = 111.758 (appox) so x > 100 therefore, 300! > 1 0 0 3 0 0
Simplistically:-
1.) log(100^300)= 300 x log(100)=300 x 2=600
2.) log(300!)=log(300)+log(299)+....+log(100)+....+log(10)+.....+log(1)
Log to the base 10 of 100 is 2, of 10 is 1, and of 1 is zero
now pairing:
log(300)+log(1) >2
log(299)+log(2)> 2
......
log(201)+log(100)>2
.....
log(151)+log(150)>2
Therefore all pairs are >2 Therefore log(300!) > 2 x 300 >600
Therefore 300! > 100^300 q.e.d.
The question is to find out the larger number. Okay, If we plug ? as relational operator between 3 0 0 ! and 1 0 0 3 0 0 then the desired form is,
(300!) {\color\red{?}} (100^{300}) \Rightarrow {log_{100} (300!)} {\color\red{?}} {300log_{100} (100)} \Rightarrow{ \sum_{x=300}^1 log_{100} x} {\color\red{?}} {300} \Rightarrow { log_{100} (300) + log_{100} (299) + log_{100} (298) \ldots + log_{100} (1) } {\color\red{?}} (300 ) Now, look carefully that, the number of terms in left side is exact to the number 300 in right side.. So, left side = right side will be possible if and only if every term of l o g 1 0 0 x is 1 .. But it is not possible. Because l o g 1 0 0 ( 3 0 0 ) , l o g 1 0 0 ( 2 9 9 ) ....... upto l o g 1 0 0 ( > 1 0 0 ) , every term will be > 1 .. So, ∑ x = 3 0 0 1 l o g 1 0 0 x > 300. \Rightarrow \boxed{\color\red{300! > 100^{300}}}
"So, left side = right side will be possible if and only if every term is 1". False. Because ... every term will be >1. And for every x<100 log_100x<1. And then?
We can prove by induction that n ! > 1 0 0 n for all integers n ≥ 2 6 9 .
Base step: At n = 2 6 9 , we have that 2 6 9 ! ≈ 2 . 4 6 7 × 1 0 5 3 8 > 1 × 1 0 5 3 8 = 1 0 2 6 9 .
Induction step: At n = k (for some k > 2 6 9 ), assume that k ! > 1 0 0 k . Then we have that ( k + 1 ) ! = k ! ( k + 1 ) > 1 0 0 k ( k + 1 ) > 1 0 0 k ⋅ 2 7 0 > 1 0 0 k ⋅ 1 0 0 = 1 0 0 k + 1 . Since ( k + 1 ) ! > 1 0 0 k + 1 , this completes the induction proof.
Disclaimer: For the base step, I admittedly experimented with trial-and-error on Wolfram Alpha to find that the smallest number n for which n ! > 1 0 0 n is true is 2 6 9 .
Kamenetsky's formula floor(\(\frac{log(2𝜋x300)}{2}\) + 300(log(300)-log(e))) + 1 gives 615 digits in 300! And 300log(100) + 1 gives 601 digits in 100^300. Note that normally to find the number of digits in an exponent the floor function would be used, but in this case, taking the log of this number gives an integer, so floor function is not necessary. 300! > 100^300
300! = 1(300!) = 100^300(.01^300)300! That's greater than 100^300 if 300! has greater than 600 digits.
Number of digits in X = CEILING[log(X)] CEILING[log(N!)] = CEILING[log(N(N-1)...1)] = CEILING[log(N)+log(N-1)+...+1] Number of digits in 300! = CEILING[log(300) +log(299) ... +log(1)]
log(300) = 2.477; log(100) = 2; log(10) = 1. If log(X) was linear, we'd have approximately 300! with 201(2.23) + 89(1.5) digits, which is 448 + 133 = 581 digits. However, log(X) is NOT linear. log(200) = 2.30; log(49) = 1.69. So we have at least 202(2.3) + 89(1.6) digits = 464 + 142 = 606 digits. That's greater than 600. Therefore, (.01^300)300! > 1 and 300! > 100^300.
As per me, 3 0 0 ! = 3 0 0 × 2 9 9 × . . . × 2 × 1 = 1 5 0 × 1 5 0 × . . . 3 0 0 t i m e s
= 1 5 0 3 0 0 , obviuosly > 1 0 0 3 0 0
Debanjan, your equality 300!=150^300 is not true. Try it for 8! and you will see that it does not equal to 4^8 (which is greater).
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Thanks! My answer was rather based on assumption. I was doubtful for actual case.
Simple expansion in mind. Imagine that both are expanded. Consider the factorial term, and in that, consider the numbers which are above 100, divide it in such a way that those numbers doesn't go below 100 and you have at least 200 numbers between 1 and 3. Use those to multiply the numbers which are below 100. Now you have 300 numbers which are distinctively more than 100. That means, it's more than the other term.
Use those to multiply the numbers which are below 100. Now you have 300 numbers which are distinctively more than 100.
This is not obvious. Can you show the relevant working please?
can u give a soln othr dan ds so dt sum1 who is nt a math student could also solve it cuz ds factorial n sterling formula r need to b remembered...........hw abt if take log of both....or any soln using general sense of humour............
I arrived at the solution through logical deduction, Both the solutions can be computed though a string of exactly 300 sequential multiplications. Thus the number with the highest mean factor of multiplication must be the largest.
the mean for 300! =(1+300)/2=150.5
while 100^300=100
300!>100^300
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The inequality n ! > ( n / 3 ) n holds for all positive integers n ; apply this to n = 3 0 0 .
Note: One way to prove the inequality is: ln ( n ! ) = k = 2 ∑ n ln ( k ) ≥ ∫ 1 n ln ( x ) d x > n ( ln ( e n ) ) > n ( ln ( 3 n ) ) = ln ( ( 3 n ) n )
Another way to prove the inequality is:
We can give a proof by induction on n , assuming that n ! > 3 n n n . Now ( n + 1 ) ! > ( n + 1 ) 3 n n n = ( n + 1 n ) n 3 n ( n + 1 ) n + 1 = ( 1 + 1 / n ) n 1 3 n ( n + 1 ) n + 1 > 3 n + 1 ( n + 1 ) n + 1 since ( 1 + n 1 ) n < e < 3 . We have in fact shown that n ! > e n n n .