Neil's sum of factorials

How many ordered quadruples of positive integers ( w , x , y , z ) (w, x, y, z) are there such that w ! = x ! + y ! + z ! ? w! = x! + y! + z!?

This problem is shared by Neil T.


The answer is 1.

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9 solutions

Gilbert Simmons
Nov 5, 2013

Assume w.l.o.g. x y z x \leq y \leq z .

\implies x ! + y ! + z ! 3 ( z ! ) x! + y! + z! \leq 3(z!)

z ! < w ! 3 ( z ! ) \implies z! < w! \leq 3(z!) as x , y x, y and z z are positive integers.

w ! / z ! = 2 \implies w!/z! = 2 or 3 3

z ! = 1 \implies z! = 1 or z ! = 2 z! = 2

If z ! = 1 z! = 1 then x ! x! and y ! y! also = 1 = 1 , giving w ! = 3 w! = 3 which is impossible.

If z ! = 2 z! = 2 then x ! + y ! + z ! = 4 , 5 x! + y! + z! = 4, 5 or 6 6 .

\implies w ! = 6 w! = 6 only possibility, with x ! = y ! = z ! = 2 x! = y! = z! = 2

Wow. This is an amazing solution without unnecessary complexities! Great job!

Jean Lee - 7 years, 6 months ago

This is a complete satisfying solution.

Led Tasso - 7 years, 7 months ago

wow nice solution

Rindell Mabunga - 7 years, 7 months ago

nice solution.

Rohit Bhagwat - 6 years, 6 months ago
Anis Abboud
Nov 3, 2013

Only one quadruple is valid: 3 ! = 2 ! + 2 ! + 2 ! 3! = 2! + 2! + 2! .

Consider the possible values for w:

  • 1: Doesn't work because 1! cannot be the sum of 3 positive integers.
  • 2: Doesn't work because 2! cannot be the sum of 3 positive integers.
  • 3: Works because 3!=6 is exactly 2!+2!+2!.
  • For w >= 4, x, y, z have to be at most w - 1. Since w! = w * (w-1)! and w > 3, there is no decomposition of w! to 3 smaller factorials. (Need at least w factorials, and w > 3.)

Sir please explain your last point ....

Yash Kumar Gupta - 7 years, 7 months ago

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Let me try to explain it using an example. Let's take w = 10. Obviously, x,y,z have to be all less than 10. If we take x=y=z=9, 10! is still bigger than 3*9!. So, for any x,y,z that are less than that, 10! is going to be more than x!+y!+z! (because x!+y!+z! <= 9!+9!+9! < 10!). Therefore, there is no triple (x, y, z) that would satisfy 10! = x! + y! + z!.

Similarly for any w >= 4 that we take instead of 10, because the third line in this comment would still hold. For general w it would be "w! is still bigger than 3*(w - 1)!"

Anis Abboud - 7 years, 7 months ago

For w 4 w \geq 4 it is easy to see that there is no possible solution since x , y , z < m x,y,z <m and after 4 ! 4! we cannot have lesser factorials adding up to 4 ! 4! or above.

There is one ordered pair w = 3 w = 3 and x , y , z = 2 x,y,z = 2 which satisfies the given conditions.

We find that if w < 3 w<3 then one of the variables x , y x,y or z z must be 0 0 which does not follow the given conditions.

Therefore there is 1 \boxed{1} ordered pair satisfying the given conditions.

Better and easier than rest!

Krishna Ar - 6 years, 10 months ago
Ahaan Rungta
Nov 3, 2013

w ! = x ! + y ! + z ! w! = x! + y! + z! Note that, if x = 1 x = 1 , then, since w > 1 w > 1 , w ! w! is even, so y ! + z ! y! + z! must be odd. This can only happen if y = 1 y = 1 or z = 1 z = 1 but not both. WLOG, say y = 1 y = 1 . Then, we have w ! = 2 + z ! . w! = 2 + z!. But there are no ordered pairs ( w , z ) (w,z) that satisfy this Diophantine equation. Thus, x , y , z > 1 x, y, z > 1 .

Factorials increase rapidly and, thus, any solutions will be for "small" x , y , z x, y, z . We see that x = y = z = 2 x = y = z = 2 gives w = 3 w = 3 and, above this, the orders of the LHS and RHS change and their difference increase extremely quickly.

Thus, the only such ordered pair is ( 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 ) (3, 2, 2, 2) , so the answer is 1 \boxed {1} .

Sai Arvind
Dec 14, 2013

No soultion for w>=4 as the process of choosing factorials doesnt add up ! so oly solution is (3,2,1,1)

(3,2,2,2)

saleh elsbahi - 7 years, 4 months ago

chack

math dude - 7 years, 2 months ago

The trivial solution is (w, x, y, z): (3, 2, 2, 2).

We use the case-to-case analysis.

If w = 1, 2: there are no solutions complying the given.

If w = 3, hence, we have the trivial solutions.

If w is greater than or equal to 4, since the factorial function increases more than exponentially, when we try to maximize x, y, and z as long as at least one of them must not equal to w. Doing this, the right-hand side hardly reach value of a factorial.

Hence, the answer.

Snehal Shekatkar
Nov 6, 2013

Since the factorials increase too fast, it is impossible to get factorial of certain positive integer by adding factorials of smaller integers. In fact ( n + 1 ) ! (n+1)! can be written as sum of n ! n! s ( n + 1 ) (n+1) times. Clearly, replacing any of these terms would make the sum smaller and we would not reach ( n + 1 ) ! (n+1)! . Also this sum would still be greater than as far as we don't reduce every term (in that case we can state the whole argument using factorial of smaller integer than n n ). Hence, only possibility is that in a given equation, each term on R.H.S. is equal to n ! n! for some n n and term on the L.H.S. is ( n + 1 ) ! (n+1)! . Hence we have ( n + 1 ) ! = 3 n ! (n+1)!=3*n! which gives n = 2 n=2 . Thus there is only one solution to the problem: ( 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 ) \boxed{(3,2,2,2)}

Anup Raj
Nov 4, 2013

It is known that w ! = ( w 1 ) ( w 2 ) 3 2 1 w! = (w-1) \cdot (w-2) \cdot \cdot \cdot 3 \cdot 2 \cdot 1 . Hence,

0 x w ; 0 \leq x \leq w;

0 y w ; 0 \leq y \leq w;

0 z w ; 0 \leq z \leq w;

but w ! w! can never be e q u a l equal to 3 w ! 3 \cdot w! . 0 x ( w 1 ) ; \Rightarrow 0 \leq x \leq (w-1);

0 y ( w 1 ) ; 0 \leq y \leq (w-1);

0 z ( w 1 ) ; 0 \leq z \leq (w-1);

for m a x i m u m maximum of right hand side, x = y = z = ( w 1 ) x = y = z = (w-1) .

By, solving, we can see that w = 3 w = 3 , which means that this relation s only true for one value. Hence the answer.

Can you explain what you mean by x = y = z = ( w 1 ) x = y = z = (w-1) ? Why can't we have x = w 2 x = w-2 ?

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 7 months ago
Snehdeep Arora
Nov 4, 2013

Note that w > x , y , z w>x,y,z .First possibility w = 1 w=1 , w ! = 1 w!=1 which cannot be written as a sum of three positive numbers.Similarly for w = 2 w=2 , w ! = 2 w!=2 which cannot be written as a sum of three factorials.For w = 3 w=3 , w ! = 6 = 2 ! + 2 ! + 2 ! w!=6 = 2!+2!+2! .For w = 4 w=4 , w ! = 24 w!=24 .As 3 ! + 3 ! + 3 ! = 18 3!+3!+3! =18 , 4 ! 4! cannot be written as the sum of three factorials.Similarly any factorial after 3 ! 3! cannot be written as the sum of three factorials.Only ordered pair is ( 3 , 2 , 2 , 2 ) (3,2,2,2) .

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