Nested Fractional Exponent Discovered

Calculus Level 3

The sequence ( 1 ) , ( 1 ) 1 ( 1 ) , ( 1 ) 1 ( 1 ) 1 ( 1 ) , (-1), {\large (-1)^ \frac{1}{(-1)} }, {\Large (-1) ^ \frac{1}{(-1)^ \frac{1}{(-1)}} }, \ldots clearly converges to the integer 1. -1.

The sequence ( 4 ) , ( 4 ) 1 ( 4 ) , ( 4 ) 1 ( 4 ) 1 ( 4 ) , (4), {\large (4)^ \frac{1}{(4)} }, {\Large (4) ^ \frac{1}{(4)^ \frac{1}{(4)}} }, \ldots converges to the integer 2. (Can you prove it?)

Does there exist another value b 1 , 1 , 4 b \neq 1, -1, 4 such that the sequence { a n } \{a_n\} defined recursively by a 0 = b ; a n + 1 = b 1 a n a_0 = b; \quad a_{n+1} = {\large b^{\frac{1}{a_n}} } also converges to an integer?

Note: Written out, this sequence is ( b ) , ( b ) 1 ( b ) , ( b ) 1 ( b ) 1 ( b ) , . (b), {\large (b)^ \frac{1}{(b)} }, {\Large (b) ^ \frac{1}{(b)^ \frac{1}{(b)}} }, \ldots.

Yes No

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6 solutions

Mark Hennings
Oct 30, 2017

If we put b = 1 2 b = \tfrac12 , then we have a 0 = 1 2 a 1 = ( 1 2 ) 2 = 1 4 a 2 = ( 1 2 ) 4 = 1 16 a_0 \; = \; \tfrac12 \hspace{2cm} a_1 = \big(\tfrac12\big)^2 = \tfrac14 \hspace{2cm} a_2 = \big(\tfrac12\big)^4 = \tfrac{1}{16} and, in general a n + 1 1 = 2 a n 1 a_{n+1}^{-1} \; = \; 2^{a_n^{-1}} so that the a n 1 a_n^{-1} form a tetration tower, a n 1 = 2 2 2 2 ( n + 1 copies of 2 ) a_n^{-1} \; = \; 2^{2^{2^{\cdot^{\cdot^{\cdot^2}}}}} \hspace{2cm} (n+1\; \text{copies of } 2) which diverge to \infty , and hence a n 0 a_n \to 0 as n n \to \infty , and (of course), 0 0 is an integer.

Can you tell me was it an intuition or proper mathematical way of choosing b=0.5??Can you find another number or give a range of numbers(set)??? @Mark Hennings @Chew-Seong Cheong

ritik agrawal - 3 years, 7 months ago

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If you look at the report I made about the earlier version of the question (when b b was fixed at an integer), you will see that I (essentially) found that values of b 3 b \ge 3 and b < 0 b < 0 are impossible. Once the question was made precise, there was only a limited area in which to hunt. Certainly b = 1 n b = \tfrac{1}{n} for any integer n 2 n \ge 2 will work.

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 7 months ago

Is it really appropriate to say that when b is equal to 1/2 then it converges to zero? when the next term after that is undefined?. Unlike the prior examples 1, -1 and 4... this case doesn't reiterate afterwards.

Ivan Richmond Jumawan - 3 years, 7 months ago

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If b = 1 / 2 b=1/2 then a n a_n is defined for all n n , and converges to 0 0 , as I have shown. What you mean be "this case does not reiterate afterwards" is totally unclear to me.

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 7 months ago

Heya Ivan. I think you're worried about the division by zero that occurs "after" the sequence gets to zero. The beauty of converging sequences is that they don't necessarily actually ever reach the number they're converging to. They just get closer and closer and closer and closer; a closeness that can be precisely and mathematically defined. But the point is that none of the terms in the sequence are actually equal to zero, so there's never any division by zero.

Justin Southey - 3 years, 7 months ago
Rod Hutchings
Nov 1, 2017

The original question is basically to prove that the sequence a 0 = b ; a n + 1 = b 1 a n a_0 = b; \quad a_{n+1} = {\large b^{\frac{1}{a_n}} } converges to 2 when b = 4. From basic definition of the convergence of a sequence, we know that if a n a_n converges, then lim n > a n = lim n > a n + 1 = L \lim_{n -> \infty} a_n ~~=~~ \lim_{n -> \infty} a_{n+1}~=~ L So, as n > n -> \infty , it follows that the sequence formula becomes L = b 1 / L L = b^{1/L} . Hence, raising both sides to power L L gives the expression L L = b L^L ~=~ b .

Hence, for b = 4 b = 4 , the sequence will converge to a value L L , provided L L = 4 L^L = 4 , from which it easily follows that L = 2 L = 2

Based on the above, I would conjecture that the above sequence would converge if b = 27 ( = 3 3 = 3^3 ), or any other "self powered" value.

Moderator note:

This argument contains a very common misconception that is often made. (Can you spot it before reading ahead?)

It makes the assumption that the limit exists, and then justifies that L = 2 L = 2 , to claim that the limit exists. This is a circular argument. In fact, the limit might not exist, as shown by Jose for large enough (b)). In particular, for b = 27 b = 27 it does not converge (much less to an integer).

So, care has to be taken to show that for b = 4 b = 4 , the limit is indeed L = 2 L = 2 .

Looks like 'self powers' would be the rightful candidates for b so that the sequence converges. But it looks like a tall order to characterise such numbers, considering that b=1/2 also yields a convergent sequence.

Amin Sofi - 3 years, 7 months ago

If you look at my report for this problem (which originally asked for integer b b values), you can see that that the case b 27 b\ge 27 (or if you like L 3 L \ge 3 ) does not work, since the sequence a n a_n is then oscillatory, and not convergent.

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 7 months ago

Thanks, all!! I stand corrected! :)

Rod Hutchings - 3 years, 7 months ago
Me Myself
Oct 30, 2017

I'll try to prove it.

Let us assume that the sequence does coverge, to the value a a_\infty . Thus, a = a + 1 = b 1 a a_\infty=a_{\infty+1}=b^{\frac{1}{a_\infty}} , which means that a a = b a_\infty^{a_\infty}=b (Sorry for the abuse of notation). Notice that for every b > 1 , a > 1 b>1,\ a_\infty>1 this is a bijection, and a < b a_\infty<b thus we can find some a a_\infty that satisfies that condition.

Now lets prove that it must converge, that is to show that L i m n a a n = 0 Lim_{n \rightarrow \infty}|a_\infty-a_n|=0 , for Can it be done?

It can be shown using induction on n that a 2 n > a 2 n + 1 , a 2 n + 2 < a 2 n , a 2 n + 1 > a 2 n 1 a_{2n}>a_{2n+1},\quad a_{2n+2}<a_{2n},\quad a_{2n+1}>a_{2n-1} .

The sequences a 2 n + 1 a_{2n+1} and a 2 n a_{2n} must converge to some values between a 0 a_0 and a 1 a_1 , or otherwise at least one of the inequalities above will not hold.

WLOG assume that L i m n a 2 n = C Lim_{n \rightarrow \infty}a_{2n}=C , b 1 b = a 1 < C < a 0 = b b^\frac{1}{b}=a_1<C<a_0=b . It must hold that C = b 1 b 1 C = b b 1 C C=b^{\frac{1}{b^{\frac{1}{C}}}}=b^{-b^{-\frac{1}{C}}} , thus C b 1 C = b C^{b^{\frac{1}{C}}}=b .

To solve it, assume b = C d b=C^d for some 1 < d < b 1<d<b , i.e. d = l o g C ( b ) d=log_C(b) . It gives in the previous equation C b 1 C = C d C^{b^{\frac{1}{C}}}=C^d , thus b 1 C = C d C = d b^{\frac{1}{C}}=C^{\frac{d}{C}}=d that is C 1 C = d 1 d C^\frac{1}{C}=d^\frac{1}{d} . This is very tricky, as when C and d are both bigger than 1 there are two solutions: C = d C=d but also another non analytic solution where 1 < C < e d > C 1<C<e\ \rightarrow d>C and C > e 1 < d < C C>e\ \rightarrow 1<d<C . Thus b = C C b=C^C or b = C d = d C b=C^d=d^C .

For the sequence a 2 n + 1 a_{2n+1} we get the similar results - if L i m n a 2 n = K Lim_{n \rightarrow \infty}a_{2n}=K than b = K K b=K^K or b = K p = p K b=K^p=p^K ( d = l o g K ( b ) ) (d'=log_K(b)) .

If b = C C b=C^C than C = a C=a_\infty because it is a bijection, and the same goes for b = K K b=K^K . In that case, the sequence converges, and we're done.

At all the other cases, we have the equation K p = p K = C d = d C K^p=p^K=C^d=d^C , and also we know K C K\leq C , thus d p d\leq p .

I admit, I'm kinda stuck here :( . If anyone has an idea how to show that these other solutions are inconsistent, write it in the comments.

I approached it numerically for positive values of b b , I haven't done any math on it (sorry about that) yet I found something funny happening, the series seems to converge to zero for values of b < B 1 0.6 b<B_1\approx 0.6 , then for values B 1 < b < B 2 15 B_1<b<B_2\approx 15 it converges to a positive number a a (including a = 2 a=2 when b = 4 b=4 ) and then after B 2 B_2 it stays oscillating in a cycle between two numbers. Here is what I mean in a picture, for each value of b b I'm plotting a n a_n for n = 990 , 991 , , 1000 n=990,991,\dots,1000 : This really reminds me of the behavior of the logistic map, so I plotted for bigger values of b b hopping to find something, but the arms just continued without bifurcation apparently in a straight line, here is a picture:

The ~0.6 value you encountered is most likely the minimum of x^x.

Ofek Shilon - 3 years, 7 months ago

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Very good observation. The min value is 1 e 1 e 0.692 \frac{1}{e} ^ { \frac{1}{e} } \approx 0.692 .

Can you explain for smaller values of b b , why
1. if the limit exists, then it must be 0.
2. the limit exists.

Calvin Lin Staff - 3 years, 7 months ago
Theim Theim
Nov 5, 2017

So what I did is i rewrote the sequence as a n = b b b b . . . 1 ( n + 1 copies of b ) a_n = b^{b^{-b^{-b^{...{^-1}}}}} (n+1 \text{ copies of b})

Now i substituted c = b c=-b and took l o g c log_{-c} twice: l o g c ( l o g c ( a n ) ) = c c c c . . . 1 ( n 1 copies of c ) log_{-c}(log_{-c}(a_n))=c^{c^{c^{c^{...{^-1}}}}} (n-1 \text{ copies of c}) In order for a n a_n to converge to a number, the right term must also converge to a number. Now I got stuck here but I'm pretty sure that converges for every c < 0 c<0 or b > 0 b>0 ...

Siddharth Jha
Nov 5, 2017

It is clearly a strictly decreasing sequence with terms greater than 1 this as it grows smaller and smaller where would it go

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