Four Plus Minus Repeat

Algebra Level 3

4 + 4 4 + 4 4 + 4 \large \sqrt{4+\sqrt{4-\sqrt{ 4+\sqrt{4-\sqrt{ 4+\sqrt{4-\dots}}}}}}

What is the closed form of the above expression?

x = 1 + 15 2 x=\frac{1+\sqrt{15}}{2} x = 1 + 13 2 x=\frac{1+\sqrt{13}}{2} x = 1 15 2 x=\frac{1-\sqrt{15}}{2} x = 1 13 2 x=\frac{1-\sqrt{13}}{2}

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2 solutions

Satvik Golechha
Feb 16, 2015

Let 4 + 4 4 + 4 . . . . . = x \displaystyle \sqrt{4+\sqrt{4-\sqrt{4+\sqrt{4-.....}}}}=x .

Also, let 4 4 + 4 4 + . . . . . = y \displaystyle \sqrt{4-\sqrt{4+\sqrt{4-\sqrt{4+.....}}}}=y .

Then we see by observation that:-

4 + y = x \displaystyle \large \sqrt{4+y}=x

4 x = y \displaystyle \large \sqrt{4-x}=y

Now whole square both equations and subtract to get:-

x 2 y 2 = x + y \displaystyle x^2-y^2=x+y , which, in turn, means x y = 1 \displaystyle x-y=1 . Put y = x 1 \displaystyle y=x-1 in square of equation 2 \displaystyle 2 , to get the final equation- x 2 x 3 = 0 \displaystyle x^2-x-3=0

Apply Sridharacharya's Rule (the quadratic formula) to get x = 1 + 13 2 \displaystyle x=\frac{1+\sqrt{13}}{2} . Note that x \displaystyle x can't be the other root 1 13 2 \displaystyle \frac{1-\sqrt{13}}{2} because x \displaystyle x is positive.

Nice Solution......

Tushar Malik - 6 years, 3 months ago

Awesome method to solve this nested radical.

Puneet Pinku - 5 years ago

Why do we choose only the positive solution?

Harout G. Vartanian - 4 years, 6 months ago

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Because the square root of any non-negative real number produces a non-negative real number only.

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 6 months ago

I liked that you put it as Sridharacharya's Rule first and then the quadratic formula. Great solution!

Shreeram Petkar - 2 years, 6 months ago

Given is
x = 4 + 4 4 + 4 4 ± x=\sqrt{4+\sqrt{4-\sqrt{4+\sqrt{4-\sqrt{4\pm\ldots}}}}} so we can say
x = 4 + 4 x x 2 = 4 + 4 x ( x 2 4 ) 2 = 4 x 0 = x 4 8 x 2 + x + 12 = ( x 2 x 3 ) ( x 2 + x 4 ) \begin{aligned}x&=\sqrt{4+\sqrt{4-x}}\\ x^2&=4+\sqrt{4-x}\\ (x^2-4)^2&=4-x\\ 0 &= x^4-8x^2+x+12= (x^2-x-3)(x^2+x-4)\end{aligned}
this leaves us with only positive solution x = 1 + 13 2 x=\frac{1+\sqrt{13}}{2}


how to get (x^2 - x - 3)(x^2+x-4) from x^4 - 8x^2 +x + 12

Shadekur Rahman - 6 years, 3 months ago

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There's no easy shortcut to this. First, we apply Rational Root Theorem to show that none of these values ± 1 , ± 2 , ± 3 , ± 4 , ± 6 , ± 12 \pm 1, \pm 2, \pm 3, \pm 4, \pm 6, \pm 12 satisfy the equation x 4 8 x 2 + x + 12 = 0 x^4 - 8x^2+x+12 = 0 , which implies that there is no linear root. Then we consider that the fourth degree polynomial can be factored to two quadratic factors: x 2 + a x + b ) ( x 2 + c x + d x^2 + ax + b)(x^2 + cx + d , expand and compare: we get the two desired factors. Plenty of tedious work, but that's the only way.

Pi Han Goh - 6 years, 2 months ago

i got struck while factoring fourth degree polynomial. Any nice way?

Dev Sharma - 5 years, 9 months ago

I think everyone woould have got the equation.

x 4 8 x 2 + x + 12 = 0 x^{4}-8x^{2}+x+12=0

But it's tough to factorize the biquadratic equation Any shorcut method to solve or rather factorize a biquadratic equation.

Saurabh Mallik - 4 years, 9 months ago

Very good solutions, we can solve to from de successions analysis. I can say A1=(4)^[1/2] A2=(4-A1)^[1/2] A3=(4+A2)^[1/2] A4=(4-A3)^[1/2] A5=(4+A4)^[1/2] … So, note that A (2n+1)=(4-A (2n))^[1/2] for odd subscrpit, and A (2n)=(4+A (2n-1))^[1/2] for even subscriprs. With n which belongs to natural numbers.

So, if i take one Am term, with m an even number, i can say A (m+2)=(4+A (m+1))^[1/2], so we can find the recurrent term A_(m+2)=(4+(4-Am)^[1/2])^[1/2]

Now, clearly the succession is bounded, so we can say that the limit of Am with m to inf is L, and the limit of A_(m+2) with m to inf is the same L. So

L=(4+(4-L)^[1/2])^[1/2]

Operating and clearing we obtain

L^4 -8L^2 +L+12=0 (L^2 -L-3)(L^2+L+4)=0

If we solve the two ecuations the only positive solution is

L=(1+13^[1/2])/2

David Alejandro Segura Sabogal - 4 years, 3 months ago

If you want to know a different approach (by @Satvik Golechha ) , see this

A Former Brilliant Member - 6 years, 3 months ago

I did this the same way and got your answer. However, that is the positive solution from the x 2 x 3 x^{2}-x-3 factor. Why did you not consider the positive solution from the other factor( x = 1 + 17 2 x=\frac{-1+\sqrt{17}}{2} )? Is it simply because that wasn't one of the multiple choice answers (which is why I chose my answer), or was there another reason?

Louis W - 5 years, 11 months ago

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There's a simple reason why. That solution of x is less than 2, approxim. 1.5. Now as the problem is stated there is a SQRT(4+something else). That something is greater that 0 so the whole nested radical should be greater than 2 which will ditch the solution with from the second polynomial.

Radinoiu Damian - 5 years, 10 months ago

How did you factor the fourth degree polynomial?

Yash Mehan - 4 years, 9 months ago

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Read my comment above.

Pi Han Goh - 4 years, 9 months ago

Why do we choose only the positive solution?

Harout G. Vartanian - 4 years, 6 months ago

To factor polynomial put x=10 So10000-800+10+12=9222 =2 3 1537=2 3 29 53 Now we want to represent it as (x²+ax+b)(x²+cx+d), so both expresions are near x²=100 So 9223=106 87 87=10²-10-3 So we try x²-x-3 and we see it is one factor. Other is (x²+cx-4)=106=96+10c,c=1 Or just divide (x⁴-8x²+x+12):(x²-x-3)=x²+x-4

Nikola Djuric - 4 years, 4 months ago

Try this nested radical set

Krishna Sharma - 6 years, 3 months ago

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