Never tied?

In a football match, Brazil defeats Germany in a wild match: 8-6.

Assuming the goals are equally likely to be scored in any order, what is the probability that the game was never tied after the first goal?


The answer is 0.142857.

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7 solutions

Mark Hennings
Nov 1, 2015

For each game, consider the running lead that Brazil holds over Germany. Every time Brazil scores a goal, the running lead goes up by 1 1 . Every time Germany scores a goal, it goes down by 1 1 . Any game can be seen as a sequence of coordinates ( 1 , a 1 ) , ( a , a 2 ) , , ( 14 , a 14 = 2 ) (1,a_1),(a,a_2),\ldots,(14,a_{14}=2) , where a n a_n is Brazil's lead after the n n th goal, and so each a j + 1 a_{j+1} differs from the preceding a j a_j by ± 1 \pm1 . Call such a sequence a "path".

A game for which the final score is 8 : 6 8\,:\,6 is a path from ( 0 , 0 ) (0,0) to ( 14 , 2 ) (14,2) , which is the number of ways in which 8 8 1 1 s and 6 6 1 -1 s can be ordered, namely ( 14 8 ) {14 \choose 8} .

A game in which Brazil scores first is a path from ( 1 , 1 ) (1,1) to ( 14 , 2 ) (14,2) , which is the the number of ways in which 7 7 1 1 s and 6 6 1 -1 s can be ordered, namely ( 13 7 ) {13 \choose 7} .

A game in which Brazil scores first, but during which the game is not always in Brazil's favour, is a path where a 1 = 1 a_1=1 and where a n = 0 a_n=0 for some n n . For any such path, let m m be the smallest integer for which a m = 0 a_m=0 . Consider the path ( 1 , b 1 ) , ( 2 , b 2 ) , , ( 14 , b 14 ) (1,b_1),(2,b_2),\ldots,(14,b_{14}) where b j = a j b_j = -a_j for j < m j < m and b j = a j b_j = a_j for j m j \ge m . This is a path from ( 1 , 1 ) (1,-1) to ( 14 , 2 ) (14,2) , and m m is the smallest integer for which b m = 0 b_m=0 .

Conversely, if we have a path from ( 1 , 1 ) (1,-1) to ( 14 , 2 ) (14,2) , there must be at least one time when the current lead is 0 0 . Let m m be the smallest integer for which a m = 0 a_m=0 . By changing the signs of the value of a j a_j for j < m j < m , we obtain a path from ( 1 , 1 ) (1,1) to ( 14 , 2 ) (14,2) which reaches 0 0 for the first time at the m m th game.

This process of reflection yields a 1-1 correspondence between the paths from ( 1 , 1 ) (1,1) to ( 14 , 2 ) (14,2) which reach 0 0 and the paths from ( 1 , 1 ) (1,-1) to ( 14 , 2 ) (14,2) . The number of paths from ( 1 , 1 ) (1,-1) to ( 14 , 2 ) (14,2) is the number of ways in which 8 8 1 1 s and 5 5 1 -1 s can be ordered, namely ( 13 8 ) {13 \choose 8} .

Thus there are ( 13 7 ) ( 13 8 ) = 429 {13 \choose 7} - {13 \choose 8} = 429 scoring orders for which Brazil never loses the lead. Dividing this number by ( 14 8 ) {14 \choose 8} gives the answer of 1 / 7 1/7 .

If the final score was p : q p\,:\,q with p > q p>q , the same argument would give the probability as ( p + q 1 p 1 ) ( p + q 1 p ) ( p + q p ) = p q p + q . \frac{{p+q-1 \choose p-1} - {p+q-1 \choose p}}{{p+q \choose p}} \; = \; \frac{p-q}{p+q} \;.

Good solution. I have a query. Total possible games for the 8-6 score is 14C8. We can have two cases Case-1 Brazil scores the first 2 goals. In that case, we get 12C6 ways. Case- 2 Germany scores the first two goals. In that case, we get 12C4 ways.

So probability = (12C6 + 12C4)/(14C8) Which comes out to be 0.4725 Can you tell, where I may be mistaken.?

Sibasish Mishra - 4 years, 6 months ago

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Just because a team opens up a two goal lead does not mean that the otter side cannot draw level again.

Mark Hennings - 4 years, 6 months ago

I took the condition to mean that at any point of the game, Brazil always leads Germany and got 62/(14C8) as the answer. I obviously did not think about the possibility of Germany leading Brazil . I wud have thought the latter possibility so rare as to make a negligible difference. But surprisingly, the actual answer is more than double the former

Sundar R - 4 years, 1 month ago

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how does germany lead brazil? dont have they have tie it back up sometime afterwards?

Wuu Yyiizzhhoouu - 3 years, 10 months ago
Andrew Ellinor
Oct 15, 2015

In a game where Brazil wins and the game is never tied, Brazil must score the first two goals. From a score of 2-0, the game must end with a score of 8-6. This is equivalent to the number of lattice paths from (2, 0) to (8, 6) that do not such the main diagonal ( n , n ) (n, n) , which is equivalent to the number of lattice paths from (0, 0) to (6, 6) that do not touch the diagonal ( n 2 , n ) (n - 2, n)

This is a variation on Bertrand's ballot theorem. If the score at the end of the game is p p to q q with p > q p \gt q then the probability that the two teams were never tied after the first goal is p q p + q . \dfrac{p - q}{p + q}.

Brian Charlesworth - 5 years, 8 months ago

There was a similar kind. How many lattice paths exists from (0,0) to (10,10) such that it touches the main diagonal (n,n) twice. Please help me out.

Ankit Kumar Jain - 5 years, 8 months ago

I did:

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var results=[];
function dist(ar,x,y)
{
    if(x==0 && y==0)
    {
        results.push(ar);
    }else if(x>0 && y>0)
    {
        dist(ar.concat(1),x-1,y);
        dist(ar.concat(-1),x,y-1);
    }else if(x>0){
        dist(ar.concat(1),x-1,y);
    }else if(y>0){
        dist(ar.concat(-1),x,y-1);
    }else{
        console.log('error');
    }
}
dist([],8,6);
var neverTied=0;
var wasTied=0;
for(var i=0;i<results.length;i++)
{
    var score=0;
    var tied=false;
    for(var j=0;j<results[i].length;j++)
    {
        score+=results[i][j];
        if(score==0)
        {
            tied=true;break;
        }
    }
    if(!tied)
    {
        neverTied++;
    }
}

console.log(neverTied/results.length);

Menachem Avinoam - 5 years, 7 months ago

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I need to learn this programming language, what is it?

Anu Sood - 3 years, 9 months ago
Arjen Vreugdenhil
Oct 31, 2015

Here is me being lazy:

Basically each cell is calculated as (cell to the left) + (cell above). In the top half, I forced everything on or below the diagonal to be zero. The answer is the ratio between the highlighted numbers, 429 3003 = 1 7 = 0.142857 . \frac{429}{3003} = \tfrac17 = \boxed{0.142857}.

For a more elegant solution, use Catalan numbers. In this case, the answer is C 7 total paths = 1 7 + 1 ( 2 7 7 ) ( 6 + 8 6 ) = ( 14 13 12 11 10 9 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 ) ( 14 13 12 11 10 9 6 5 4 3 2 1 ) = 1 7 . \frac{C_7}{\text{total paths}} = \frac{\frac{1}{7+1}\left(\begin{array}{c} 2\cdot 7 \\ 7\end{array}\right)}{\left(\begin{array}{c} 6+8 \\ 6\end{array}\right)} = \frac{\left(\frac{14\cdot13\cdot12\cdot11\cdot10\cdot9}{7\cdot6\cdot5\cdot4\cdot3\cdot2\cdot1}\right)}{\left(\frac{14\cdot13\cdot12\cdot11\cdot10\cdot9}{6\cdot5\cdot4\cdot3\cdot2\cdot1}\right)} = \frac{1}{7}.

This is actually how students over here are required to do the first part (the 429). Except that they can write it down on paper as the calculations aren't that hard.

Ton de Moree - 5 years, 7 months ago

lol.. I too got lazy :)

Aditya Mishra - 5 years, 7 months ago
Vitalii Feilo
Nov 18, 2016

Indeed we can apply Bertrand's ballot theorem here.

In general, if Brazilians scores p goals, Germans score q goals, and p>q , then the probability that the game was never tied is p q p + q \frac {p-q}{p+q} .

In our case this is 8 6 8 + 6 = 1 7 \frac{8-6}{8+6} = \boxed{\frac17} .

Laurent Shorts
Nov 14, 2016

Part 1: number of correct sequences

Brazil scores first. If we don't count this first goal, the number of ways is the same as having 7 goals for Brazil and 6 for Germany, providing that Germany never scores more than Brazil at any point (same rule as original question, but now with equality allowed). But that is the same as the number of ways to have 7 goals of each country, with the same new rule, because in this new case 7–7, Germany would have to score the last goal.

Now, what is the number of ways to put 7 goals of each of the two teams in a row, without Germany to ever lead? This is given by the 7th Catalan number , which is C n = 1 n + 1 ( 2 n n ) C_n=\frac{1}{n+1}{2n \choose n} with n = 7 n=7 , which gives C 7 = 1 8 14 ! 7 ! 7 ! = 14 ! 8 ! 7 ! C_7=\frac{1}{8}\cdot\frac{14!}{7!\cdot 7!}=\boxed{\frac{14!}{8!\cdot 7!}} .

Part 2: number of sequences

It's the number of ways to put 8 B and 6 G in a row, which is ( 14 8 ) = 14 ! 8 ! 6 ! {14 \choose 8}=\boxed{\frac{14!}{8!\cdot 6!}}

Answer

Probability is the ratio 14 ! 8 ! 7 ! 14 ! 8 ! 6 ! = 6 ! 7 ! = 1 7 \displaystyle{\frac{\ \ \ \frac{14!}{8!\cdot 7!}\ \ \ }{\ \ \ \frac{14!}{8!\cdot 6!}\ \ \ }=\frac{6!}{7!}=}\ \boxed{\displaystyle{\frac{1}{7}}^{\ }_{\ }\!} .


Generalization

By the same proof, it's easy to show that with n + 1 n+1 goals for Brazil and n 1 n-1 goals for Germany, the probability is 1 n \frac{1}{n} .

Nicola Mignoni
Dec 24, 2018

This problem can be treated as a random walk. Consider S = { s = ( b , g ) 0 b 8 , 0 g 6 } S=\{s=(b,g) | 0 \leq b \leq 8, 0\leq g \leq 6\} to be the set of all the possible states. The set of states in which the game is tied is T S T \subset S such that T = { t = ( b , g ) b = g } T=\{t=(b,g) | b=g\} . We have to find the probability P P that the game is never tied, that is

P = path ( S T ) path ( S ) \displaystyle P=\frac{|\text{path}(S\setminus T)|}{|\text{path}(S)|}

where path ( S ) |\text{path}(S)| are the paths from ( 0 , 0 ) (0,0) to ( 8 , 6 ) (8,6) through the points in S S .

The situation can be represented on the cartesian plane where the green points are the non-tied states of the game, the red crosses the states in which the game is tied. Notice that the points of the kind ( b , g ) (b,g) such that 0 g 8 0 \leq g \leq 8 , b < g b < g are not indicated since if the game happens to end in such states, there is no way to reach ( 8 , 6 ) (8,6) without crossing one of the red points.

Now, we have that

path ( S ) = ( 14 8 ) = ( 14 6 ) \displaystyle |\text{path}(S)|=\binom{14}{8}=\binom{14}{6}

We do a consideration about path ( S T ) \text{path}(S\setminus T) : the number of paths from ( 0 , 0 ) (0,0) to ( 8 , 6 ) (8,6) avoiding the red points is equal to the number of pa()ths from ( 1 , 0 ) (1,0) to ( 8 , 7 ) (8,7) since the first transition ( 0 , 0 ) ( 1 , 0 ) (0,0) \to (1,0) and the last ( 8 , 6 ) ( 8 , 7 ) (8,6) \to (8,7) are obliged. The number of such paths is given by the Catalan numbers for n = 7 n=7 . That is,

path ( S T ) = C n = 1 n + 1 ( 2 n n ) = 1 8 ( 14 7 ) \displaystyle |\text{path}(S\setminus T)|=C_n=\frac{1}{n+1}\binom{2n}{n}=\frac{1}{8}\binom{14}{7}

Eventually

P = path ( S T ) path ( S ) = 1 8 ( 14 7 ) ( 14 8 ) 1 = 1 7 0.14285 \displaystyle P=\frac{|\text{path}(S\setminus T)|}{|\text{path}(S)|}=\frac{1}{8}\binom{14}{7} \binom{14}{8}^{-1}=\frac{1}{7}\approx \boxed{0.14285}

Rajdeep Brahma
Sep 2, 2017

Consult Bertrand's Ballot problem.U will get 8 6 8 + 6 \frac{8-6}{8+6} = 1 7 \frac{1}{7} .

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