Palin - Palin

A A and B B are positive 4-digit palindrome numbers. C C is a positive 3-digit palindrome number. Given that A B = C A-B=C , what is the value of C C ?

Details and assumptions

A palindrome is a number that is the same when its digits are reversed (i.e. 232 232 is a palindrome).

The number 10 = 010 10 = 010 is not considered a palindrome. We ignore any 0's at the start.


The answer is 121.

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14 solutions

Let A = a 1 a 2 a 2 a 1 , B = b 1 b 2 b 2 b 1 , C = c 1 c 2 c 1 A=\overline{a_1a_2a_2a_1},B=\overline{b_1b_2b_2b_1},C=\overline{c_1c_2c_1} ,while A B < 1000 A-B<1000 ,it immediately imply that a 1 b 1 = 1 a_1-b_1=1 or 0 0 . We cannot have a 1 b 1 = 0 a_1-b_1=0 ,because this imply C = 0 c 2 0 C=\overline{0c_20} which is clearly not a palindrome as the conditions given.Then a 1 b 1 = 1 a_1-b_1=1 ,and C = 1 c 2 1 C=\overline{1c_21} .Now, 11 A , B 11|A,B gives 11 A B = C 11|A-B=C . Only c 2 = 2 c_2=2 satisfy 11 1 c 2 1 11|\overline{1c_21} (as 1 c 2 + 1 = 11 k 1-c_2+1=11k for some nonnegative integer k , c 2 < 10 k,c_2<10 ,then c 2 = 2 c_2=2 ), which gives C = 121 C=121 . The required answer is 121 121 .

Moderator note:

Nicely done!

Supposse A=abba,B=dccd. We have already proven that a-d=1, a and d are single digt whole numbers except 0 ( it makes A and B three digit numbers).Also c>b since in the above solution b-c<0, therefore 10+b-c=2, so c-b=8 where c and d are single digit whole numbers (0 to 9) * a-d=1, with the given situation, has only 8 solutions(9,8),(8,7),(7,6),(6,5),(5,4),(4,3),(3,2),(2,1) while c-b=8 ,with given situation, has only 2 solutions (9,1),(8,0). *8x2 would give us 16 triples that would satisfy the condition.

Ritchie Maquiran - 7 years, 10 months ago
Russell Few
Aug 4, 2013

Since C is the difference between A and B and C is a 3 digit number, the difference between A and B is less than 1000.

We consider 2 cases:

Case 1: The Thousands digits of A and B are the same.

We let A = a b b a A=\overline{abba} and B = a c c a B=\overline{acca} . Then A B = b b 0 c c 0 = 110 ( b c ) = C A-B=\overline{bb0}-\overline{cc0}=110(b-c)=C . Also, 1 b c 9 1 \le b-c \le 9 . Thus C is a 3 digit multiple of 110. All of such numbers are in the form of a a 0 \overline{aa0} with 1 a 9 1 \le a \le 9 . There are clearly no palindromes that take that form.

Case 2: The Thousands digit of A and B are difference.

It is clear that the thousands digit of A must be one more than the thousands digit of B.

We write A = ( a + 1 ) b b ( a + 1 ) A=\overline{(a+1) bb (a+1)} and B = a c c a B=\overline{acca} . Then A B = 1001 + b b 0 c c 0 = 1001 + 110 ( b c ) = C A-B=1001+\overline{bb0}-\overline{cc0}=1001+110(b-c)=C . Since C < 1000 C<1000 , b c < 0 b-c < 0 . However, since C is at least 100, c b c-b is at most 8.

Note that C = 1001 110 ( c b ) = 1001 110 c + 110 b = 1 + 10 ( 100 + 11 b 11 c ) = 1 + 10 ( 100 11 ( c b ) ) C=1001-110(c-b)=1001-110c+110b=1+10(100+11b-11c)=1+10(100-11(c-b)) .

Hence C could be 1+10(100-11k) where k ranges from 1 to 8. Thus C could be one of 891, 781, 671, 561, 451, 341, 231, and 121.

However, we are given that C is a palindrome, so we know that C = 121 C=\boxed{121} .

Moderator note:

How many ordered triples of integers are there which satisfy the conditions?

It is interesting that they must all have C = 121 C = 121 , and there is quite an abundance of solutions.

Noticing that C is divisible by 11 helps us to arrive at 121 more easily :)

Soham Chanda - 7 years, 10 months ago

Well, it is needed that k = 8 k=8 , so c b = 8 c-b=8 . Note that the thousands digit of A and B are different, and that is the only requirement.

So we have c = 8 , b = 0 c=8, b=0 and c = 9 , b = 1 c=9, b=1 . Then a a could be anything also as long as a < 9 a<9 . So there are 8 8 choices for a a and 2 2 for b , c b, c , so there are 16 16 such triples of integers.

Russell FEW - 7 years, 10 months ago

I don't know why there is no submitting solution after I click "Skip to solution" button. I know it is wrong to write a solution as reply to other people solution, but I really want to know if my prove is correct.

  • Let A = a b b a A = \overline{abba} , B = c d d c B = \overline{cddc} , and C = e f e C = \overline{efe}
  • When a = c, then e = 0. Therefore C = 0f0 is not a palindrome.
  • When a > c + 1, then, C cannot be 3 digits.
  • The only option left is a = c + 1 a = c + 1 or a c = 1 a - c = 1 . Hence, e = 1 e = 1 and d > b d > b .
  • So we have: 1001 + 110 ( b d ) = 101 + 10 f 1001 + 110(b - d) = 101 + 10f . Since d > b, then (b - d) is negative and 0 =< f < 10. Therefore we write: ( b d ) > 80 11 = 7.27 (b - d) >\frac{80}{11} = 7.27 .
  • Hence, d > b + 7 d > b + 7 . The possible tuple of (b, d) would be = (0, 8), (0,9), (1, 9). However, it impossible for (0, 9) because it will cause C to be 2-digits. Therefore, f = 2 because

       xx1x       xx0x
       xx9x       xx8x
       ----       ----
       xx2x       xx2x
    

So the answer is 121.

Visal In - 7 years, 10 months ago

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After correctly answering the problem, the options are "Write a solution" and "Skip and discuss solutions". If you wish to submit a solution, you should click "Write a solution" to type it up.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 10 months ago
Colin Hinde
Aug 4, 2013

let A='abba', B='cddc'. Since C>0 and does not have 0 in the one's place we know a>c. Also since C is only three digits, d>b.

Then we set C='xyx'

x=a-c

y=10+b-d

and the palindrom condition:

x=10a+(b-1)-10c-d

we eliminate a,b,c,d from the last equation by substitution and get

y=11-9x

the only solution with x,y, integers less than 9 is x=1, y=2

so C=121

Moderator note:

Interestingly, there are several versions of the subtraction algorithm. See, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subtraction and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method of complements

y=10+b-d?

Cody Martin - 7 years, 10 months ago

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it's substraction algorithm .. "borrow the 1"

e.g. 332 - 151= 1*(2-1)+10*(10+3-5)+100*((3-1)-1)

Colin Hinde - 7 years, 10 months ago
Brad Morin
Aug 5, 2013

Let a,b,c,and d represent digits where A = acca and B = bddb.

Since A-B produces a three digit number, leaving zero in the 1000's place, we suspect that a = b, yielding: acca - bddb = 0??0

But that leaves zero in the one's place, which couldn't result in a three digit palindrome. The only other way to get a zero in the 1000s place is if a = b + 1 and d > c leaving C = 0??1. Or rather, because C is a palindrome, we get C = 1e1 for some digit 'e'.

In the process of subtracting the digits in the 10's and 100's place we note that the result in the 100's place must be one less than in the 10's place because we did not borrowed from the 10's place but we did borrow from the 100's place. That leaves us with C = 121.

Tan Kiat
Aug 8, 2013

Let A = a b b a A = abba , a 4 digit number, and B = c d d c B = cddc .

Consider A - B, Case 1 : a = c a = c This leads to a solution of ( 0 ) ( b d ) ( b d ) ( 0 ) (0)(b-d)(b-d)(0) going according to the thousands,hundreds,tens and ones place. As one can see, a 3-digit number with the first 2 digit equal, and the ones place having 0 is never a palindrome number.

Case 2: a = c + 1 , b > d a = c + 1, b > d The subtraction would yield ( 1 ) ( b d ) ( b d ) ( 1 ) (1)(b-d)(b-d)(1) , in which is a 4-digit number

Case 3(The only case left!) a = c + 1 , b < d a = c + 1, b < d Subtraction would yield ( 0 ) ( b + 9 d ) ( b + 10 d ) ( 1 ) (0)(b+9-d)(b+10-d)(1) . In this case, there is a possibility of a palindrome number present. For the number to be a palindrome number, the ones place = hundreds place. Hence, b + 9 d = 1 b + 9 - d = 1 => d b = 8 d - b = 8 . Hence, the only possible integer value of d d and b b is 9 9 and 1 1 respectively. This hence implies that the palindrome number is ( 1 + 9 9 ) ( 1 + 10 1 ) ( 1 ) (1+9-9)(1+10-1)(1) => 121 121

Todd Peterson
Aug 7, 2013

As A and B are 4-digit palindromes, there exist integers a, b, c, and d such that \begin{align} 1 &\le a,c \le 9 \tag{1} \\ 0 &\le b,d \le 9 \tag{2} \end{align} and \begin{align} A &= 1001a + 110b \\ B &= 1001c + 110d. \end{align} Then, A B = 1001 ( a c ) + 110 ( b d ) . A - B = 1001(a-c) + 110(b-d). Let x = a - c and y = b - d . Then C = A B = 1001 x + 110 y . C = A - B = 1001x + 110y. As A - B = C and C is positive, it must be the case that x is non-negative. From (1) and (2) we conclude that \begin{align} 0 \le x \le 8 \\ -9 \le y \le 9. \end{align} Recall that every positive integer can be written uniquely in the form a 0 1 0 0 + a 1 1 0 1 + a 2 1 0 2 + . . . + a n 1 0 n a_0 10^0 + a_1 10^1 + a_2 10^2 + ... + a_n 10^n where 0 a 0 , a 1 , . . . , a n 9. 0 \le a_0, a_1, ..., a_n \le 9.

Suppose y is non-negative. Then, C can be written uniquely as C = 1000 x + 100 y + 10 y + x . C = 1000x + 100y + 10y + x. As C is a 3-digit palindrome, it must be the case that x=0 and x=y . But then C=0 , which is a contradiction. We conclude that y is negative.

Now, C can be written uniquely in the form C = 1000 ( x 1 ) + 100 ( 9 + y ) + 10 ( 10 + y ) + x . (3) C = 1000(x-1) + 100(9 + y) + 10(10 + y) + x. \tag{3} As C is a 3-digit palindrome, it must be the case that x-1=0 , and thus x=1 . It also must be the case that x = 9 + y , and thus y = x - 9 = -8 . Substituting these values in (3) gives C = 121. C = 121.

Andrew Edwards
Aug 5, 2013

We are given that: C = ( a 1 b 1 ) × 1000 + ( a 2 b 2 ) × 100 + ( a 2 b 2 ) × 10 + ( a 1 b 1 ) C = (a_1-b_1)\times1000 + (a_2-b_2)\times100 + (a_2-b_2)\times10 + (a_1-b_1) , where C C is a three digit palindromic number.

We can immediately rule out the possibility of a 1 = b 1 a_1 = b_1 , since this would imply C = ( a 2 b 2 ) × 100 + ( a 2 b 2 ) × 10 = ( a 2 b 2 ) × 110 C = (a_2-b_2)\times100 + (a_2-b_2)\times10 = (a_2-b_2)\times110 , which cannot be palindromic. Therefore, in order for C C to be a three digit number, it must be the case that a 1 b 1 = 1 a_1 - b_1 = 1 . This gives us the following information:

C = 1001 + ( a 2 b 2 ) × 110 C = 1001 + (a_2-b_2)\times110

The values of a 2 b 2 a_2-b_2 that maintain C C as a three digit number are 1 , 2 , . . . , 9 -1, -2, ... , -9 . The only value for which C C is a palindromic number is 8 -8 , in which case C = 1001 + ( 8 ) × 110 = 121 C = 1001 + (-8)\times110 = 121 .

[Note: I am not very content with that last step, where I search over all possible values of a 2 b 2 a_2 - b_2 . I hope someone has a more intelligent solution for this final step.]

I'm not sure how you could make your argument in the last paragraph better. I'd just say something along the lines of "C must end with the digit 1 1 since 1001 110 x 1 m o d 10 1001-110x\cong1\mod10 , and so the first digit must also be a 1 1 . This clearly only happens when x = 8 x = -8 ." other than that, I solved it using the same method you did.

Sotiri Komissopoulos - 7 years, 10 months ago

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Sorry, " x = 8 x=8 ".

Sotiri Komissopoulos - 7 years, 10 months ago
Kee Wei Lee
Aug 5, 2013

So we are looking for: a b b a c d d c = e f e \overline{abba}-\overline{cddc}=\overline{efe} for which a , c , e a,c,e are not 0.

a b b a c d d c = e f e \overline{abba}-\overline{cddc}=\overline{efe} 1000 a + 100 b + 10 b + a ( 1000 c + 100 d + 10 d + c ) = 100 e + 10 f + e 1000a+100b+10b+a-(1000c+100d+10d+c)=100e+10f+e 1001 ( a c ) + 110 ( b d ) = 101 e + 10 f 1001(a-c)+110(b-d)=101e+10f 11 ( 91 ( a c ) + 10 ( b d ) ) = 101 e + 10 f 11(91(a-c)+10(b-d))=101e+10f

Now this means 101 e + 10 f 101e+10f is a multiple of 11. Additionally from: 1001 ( a c ) + 110 ( b d ) = 101 e + 10 f 1001(a-c)+110(b-d)=101e+10f We see a c = 1 a-c=1 , this is so as;

If a c 2 1001 ( a c ) + 110 ( b d ) 2002 990 = 1012 a-c\geq 2 \Rightarrow 1001(a-c)+110(b-d)\geq 2002-990=1012 , which is not possible as the result will be 4 digit.

If a c = 0 a-c=0 then 110 ( b d ) = 101 e + 10 f 110(b-d)=101e+10f , which is not possible as 110 ( b d ) 110(b-d) cannot be a 3 digit palindrome number for ( b d ) = 0 , 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 (b-d)=0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9

If a c 1 1001 ( a c ) + 110 ( b d ) 1001 + 990 = 11 a-c\leq -1 \Rightarrow 1001(a-c)+110(b-d) \leq -1001+990=-11 which is not possible as it has to be positive.

So as ( a c ) = 1 (a-c)=1 this means e = 1 e=1 . So the only number that is palindrome with its first and unit digit 1, and is a multiple of 11, is 121.

i'll like to edit the last part of the solution, it should be: 'So the only number that is palindrome with its first and unit digit 1 and is a multiple of 11 is 121.'

Kee Wei Lee - 7 years, 10 months ago
Jason Zimmerman
Aug 4, 2013

4-digit palindrome numbers are necessarily multiples of 11. More specifically, they are of the form 11 a b a 11 * aba , where a b a aba is a 3-digit palindrome (note that not all 3-digit palindromes work). So A B A - B can be written as 11 ( 100 ( a c ) + 10 ( b d ) + ( a c ) ) = 11 ( 101 ( a c ) + 10 ( b d ) ) 11(100(a - c) + 10(b - d) + (a - c)) = 11(101(a - c) + 10(b - d))

The only 3-digit palindrome numbers that are also multiples of 11 11 are those which are a multiple of 1 1 2 11^2 . Thus 101 ( a c ) + 10 ( b d ) 101(a -c) + 10(b - d) is a multiple of 11 less than 100. This is only possible when it equals 11. Thus, C = 11 x 11 = 121 C = 11 x 11 = 121 .

Moderator note:

While it is true that 4-digit palindromes are multiples of 11, they do not need to be of the form 11 × a b a 11 \times \overline{aba} . For example, 9889 = 11 × 899 9889 = 11 \times 899 .

Care has be taken to show the equivalence of definitions that you use.

What is a b b a 11 \frac{ \overline{abba} } { 11} in terms of a a and b b ?

wrong solutions: not all 4-digit palindromes equal 11*aba

Cuong Doan - 7 years, 10 months ago

If we take 2 palindromes such that the first and last digits of them have a difference of 2, then their difference will be more than 999. Lets say that A = abba, and B = cddc (the letters represent the digits).

We know that a - c = 1 (that's what I conclude on the first paragraph). Then the first and third digits of the 3 digit palindrome is 1. Note that a and c also needs to appear at the end of the number (left extreme of both numbers), so we need to substract in such a way that when we get to the a, we had already regrouped.

If b > d, the regrouping is impossible. Same happens if b = d. So b < d, because it's the only way of regrouping. When we substract b - d, we need to take from the other b, so that we get b + 10 - d = x (we dont know x yet). Then on the other b, we will substract b - 1 - d, because we took from that b. But b still being minor than d, so when we regroup we will have b + 9 - d, and we know b + 9 - d = 1. So we get b + 10 - d = x and b + 9 - d = 1, what clearly means that x = 2, so C = 121.

Note: Sorry that my english is not so fluent. :D

Dani Chen
Aug 9, 2013

Let the subtraction statement be:

abba

cddc

= efe

the letters represent digits. from this, we can already determine two statements.

d > b because if we were to single out bb - dd = ef, then there needs to be carrying a one at some point to produce ef. if b was greater than d, then if you subtracted it, it should equal repeating digits instead of ef.

a - 1 = c because in the thousands place, it is 0 because we are given that a four dig number minus a four dig number equals a three dig. in this case, we know that the hundreds place will take away 1, so that a = c. therefore, a minus 1 equals to c.

now that we know that, we know that e is automatically equal to 1 because if a minus c, that will equal to 1. for this entire question, it doesn't matter what a or c is equal too. all we need are b and d.

so efe = 1f1. now we need to solve for f. take out 1bb - dd = 1f. find numbers that can equal to 1f while fulfilling the other two. so after a bit of trial and error (sorry i don't have another way), we got 111 - 99 = 12. so now we know that efe is 121.

yay thats the answer

The problem restated: 1000 w + 100 x + 10 x + w 1000 y + 100 z + 10 z + y = 100 q + 10 p + q 1000w + 100x + 10x + w - 1000y + 100z + 10z + y = 100q + 10p + q

where w,x,y,z,q,p are all single digit positive integers, w,y,q non-zero.

Rearranging:

1001 ( w y ) + 110 ( x z ) = 101 q + 10 p 1001(w-y) + 110(x-z) = 101q + 10p

Let f = w-y and -g = x-z (f and g must therefore also be single digit positive integers):

1001 f 110 g = 101 q 10 p 1001f - 110g = 101q - 10p

Then f must equal q for the ones digit on both sides to be equal:

900 q 110 g = 10 p 900q -110g = 10p

90 q 11 g = p 90q -11g = p

Since p must be a single digit and q must be nonzero, 0 < q < 2, so q = 1. Since p must also be a positive single digit, 7< g < 9, so p = 2.

So C = 101 q + 10 p = 121 C = 101q + 10p = 121

Adnan Van Dal
Aug 5, 2013

if A has form a[0]a[1]a[1]a[0] and B has form b[0]b[1]a[1]a[0] where the a[I] and b[j] are digits, then we must have a[0]>b[0] else C would end in a zero (and A>B since C>0). But then C would be 4 digits unless a[1]<b[1], which tells us that a[0] = b[0]+1 (since in this case, when we cancel to perform the subtraction we get rid of the 4th digit). So we now know C has the form 1n1 since we knew a[0]=b[0]+1 which gives the units digit as being 1, and C is a palindrome. Now, we said that a[1]<b[1] (which allowed us to cancel and reduce the number of digits), hence 10+a[1]-b[1]-1=1, since the hundreds digit of C will be formed from subtracting b[1] from a[1] after the latter has had 1 taken off it and 10 added to it (the process of the 2 cancellations necessary to form the 10s and 100s digits). But then a[1]-b[1] = -8, which means the 10s digit n = 10 +-8 = 2, ince we have taken 10 from the hundreds digit of A. This gives 121.

Thuc Vo Duy
Aug 5, 2013

Denote A=abba B=edde and C=xyx (a,b,c,d,e,x,y is a digit 0..9 A>B => a>e if b>d => C have four digits, but C have 3 => b<d

we have: a-e=x 10b-d=y (1) 10b - (d+1)=x =>10b-d = x+1 (2) and a-(e+1)=0=>a-e=1 =>x=1 from (2) => 10b-d=2 and (1) => y= 2

so C=121

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