Placing charges on a plate

A point charge +q is located at a point A which is far away from a thin dielectric square plate with positive surface charge + σ +\sigma . It is known that the minimum work required to move the charge from point A to one of the corners of the plate is W 1 = 1 J W_{1}=1~\mbox{J} . What is the minimum work W 2 W_{2} in Joules required to move the same charge from point A to the center of the plate?


The answer is 2.

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4 solutions

Mark Hennings
Sep 10, 2013

Suppose that the plate is a a m square. The electrostatic potential φ O \varphi_O at the centre of the square plate, due to the charge distribution on the plate, is φ O = σ 4 π ε 0 ( 2 a ) 2 a a a a d x d y x 2 + y 2 = σ 4 π ε 0 a 2 J ( a ) \varphi_O \; = \; \frac{\sigma}{4\pi \varepsilon_0 (2a)^2}\int_{-a}^a \int_{-a}^a \frac{dx\,dy}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}} \; = \; \frac{\sigma}{4\pi \varepsilon_0 a^2}J(a) while the electrostatic potential at one of the corners of the plate is φ C = σ 4 π ε 0 ( 2 a ) 2 0 2 a 0 2 a d x d y x 2 + y 2 = σ 16 π ε 0 a 2 J ( 2 a ) \varphi_C \; = \; \frac{\sigma}{4\pi \varepsilon_0(2a)^2}\int_0^{2a}\int_0^{2a}\frac{dx\,dy}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}} \; = \; \frac{\sigma}{16\pi \varepsilon_0a^2}J(2a) where J ( b ) = 0 b 0 b d x d y x 2 + y 2 J(b) \; = \; \int_0^b \int_0^b \frac{dx\,dy}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}} Changing variables makes it clear that J ( b ) = b J ( 1 ) J(b) \,=\, bJ(1) for all b > 0 b > 0 . In fact, J ( 1 ) = 2 sinh 1 1 J(1) = 2\sinh^{-1}1 . Thus φ O = σ 4 π ε 0 a J ( 1 ) φ C = σ 8 π ε 0 a J ( 1 ) \varphi_O \; = \; \frac{\sigma}{4\pi\varepsilon_0a}J(1) \qquad \varphi_C \; = \; \frac{\sigma}{8\pi\varepsilon_0a}J(1) and hence φ C = 1 2 φ O \varphi_C = \tfrac{1}{2}\varphi_O . The minimum work done bringing in a test particle q q from the point A A at infinity to one of the corners of the square is W 1 = q φ C = 1 W_1 = q\varphi_C = 1 J. The minimum work done bringing in a test particle q q from A A to the centre of the square is W 2 = q φ O = 2 W 1 = 2 W_2 = q\varphi_O = 2W_1 = 2 J.

Oops! My square is 2 a 2a m square, not a a . The calculations are consistent.

Mark Hennings - 7 years, 9 months ago

Sir, I have a doubt. Is it okay to do with this

W For corner to center + W 1 = W 2 W_{\text{For corner to center}} + W_{1}=W_{2} ?

I used this... Is it okay?

Md Zuhair - 3 years, 1 month ago

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This is fine. Like gravity, electrostatic attraction is a conservative force.

Mark Hennings - 3 years, 1 month ago

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Yeah, Then I had to use integral :P.. So no point in telling.. as I couldnt find relation bet. W 1 W_{1} and W 2 W_{2} . So just Finded out those.... Like you did...

Md Zuhair - 3 years, 1 month ago

Use dimensional analysis, we can easily obtain that W 1 W_1 has form k q σ a ε 0 \frac{k q\sigma a}{\varepsilon_0} , where a is the side of the square and k is constant coefficient.

Imagine that the center of the plate is also the corners of 4 smaller squares, whose side is a 2 \frac{a}{2} .

Therefore, W 2 = 4 k q σ a 2 ε 0 = 2 W 1 = 2 ( J ) W_2=4*\frac{k q\sigma a}{2\varepsilon_0}=2W_1=2(J) .

Note: the first time I solved this problem, I didn't notice the correlation between two position and had to calculate the coefficient k = l n ( 1 + 2 ) 2 π k=\frac{ln(1+\sqrt{2})}{2\pi} . The coefficient in W 2 W_2 is two times bigger.

Is it fair to use dimensional analysis to work out a formula? Isn't it just to check the result? I mean, who does tell you that you found the right formula and that the right formula actually exists and it's nice and easy?

It looks powerful because I had to struggle with double integrals and then get a numerical answer! This looks way easier!

In case would you please suggest me a book or an online paper where they explain how to use dimensional analysis properly?

Ariel Lanza - 7 years, 9 months ago

Since σ \sigma is charge, not charge density, your dimensional analysis isn't quite right. The dimension relationship should be W = k q σ a ε 0 W = \tfrac{kq\sigma}{a\varepsilon_0} , and you need to cope with your four smaller square each having one quarter the charge as well as half the size.

Mark Hennings - 7 years, 9 months ago

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Yes, it's my fault. In all problems I've done before, σ \sigma is always charge density, and I didn't realise that in this problem, it's the total charge. However, I think it won't affect my solution much, just suppose σ \sigma in my solution is density, different from σ \sigma in the problem :D.

Đinh Ngọc Hải - 7 years, 9 months ago

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I expect it was a typo in the question, since σ \sigma is normally charge density, as you say.

Mark Hennings - 7 years, 9 months ago

nice :)

Reyman Jan Evangelista - 7 years, 9 months ago

How do you calculate k?

Himanshu Arora - 7 years, 9 months ago

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If you see my post, using the substitution y = x sinh u y=x\sinh u and then integration by parts, J ( 1 ) = 0 1 0 1 d x d y x 2 + y 2 = 0 1 [ u ] u = 0 sinh 1 ( x 1 ) d x = 0 1 sinh 1 ( x 1 ) d x = [ x sinh 1 ( x 1 ) ] 0 1 + 0 1 d x 1 + x 2 = [ x sinh 1 ( x 1 ) + sinh 1 x ] 0 1 = 2 sinh 1 1 \begin{array}{rcl} J(1) & = & \int_0^1 \int_0^1 \frac{dx\,dy}{\sqrt{x^2+y^2}} \; = \; \int_0^1\Big[u\Big]_{u=0}^{\sinh^{-1}(x^{-1})}\,dx \\ & = & \int_0^1 \sinh^{-1}(x^{-1})\,dx \; = \; \Big[x\sinh^{-1}(x^{-1})\Big]_0^1 + \int_0^1 \frac{dx}{\sqrt{1+x^2}} \\ & = & \Big[x\sinh^{-1}(x^{-1}) + \sinh^{-1}x\Big]_0^1 \; = \; 2\sinh^{-1}1 \end{array} and k = 1 4 π J ( 1 ) = 1 2 π sinh 1 1 k = \tfrac1{4\pi}J(1) = \tfrac{1}{2\pi}\sinh^{-1}1 .

Mark Hennings - 7 years, 9 months ago

Calculating k is not necessary for this problem, but if you want calculate k, you should devide the square into many very small segments dx a, and devide each segment into smaller segments dx dy and make integral twice.

Đinh Ngọc Hải - 7 years, 9 months ago

Interesting solution, a lot more clear than my double integrals :) .

Sadi Kneipp Neto - 7 years, 9 months ago
Amur Ghose
Feb 22, 2014

Let us begin by assuming that the expression for potential at the center of a charged plate exists as a function of sigma and L, where L = side of the square plate, and sigma the charge density.

By dimensional analysis, P varies as Sigma x L . So for a corner, we have 1/4th of what would result for Sigma and 2L. For a center, therefore, this yields twice the potential of the corner. Hence 2 J.

That problem has the same formulation, which is W1 and W2 are directly proportional. So, to equalize the W1 (1J), we need 2J because it needs twice to move the same charge from point A to the center of the plate.

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