Plusplus perimeter

Geometry Level 1

A plus-plus is a polygon in which all the side lengths are 1 and adjacent sides meet at right angles.

Is there a plus-plus with perimeter 2018?

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19 solutions

Bryan Hung
Jun 10, 2018

Pretend that the sides of a plus-plus are traced by a moving point. This point moves one unit at a time, in any of the four standard directions.

Claim 1 : The number of horizontal moves = The number of vertical moves

This is because after the point moves horizontally, it must move vertically.

Claim 2 : The number of left moves = The number of right moves, and likewise for vertical moves.

This is because the point returns to where it starts. (Also, vertical moves don't affect horizontal displacement)

Claim 3 : Left moves = Right moves = Up moves = Down moves

Follows from the previous two claims.

Thus, the total number of moves is divisible by four, and 2018 clearly is not.

Great proof. Your Claim 1 never occurred to me so obviously. I knew something like this was going on, but I had to go with the constructive example which I figured was far more complicated than it needed to be.

Jeremy Galvagni - 3 years ago

Isn't it possible to have two plus-plus polygons abut each other so that they share 3 sides and then the total perimeter is 18 which isn't divisible by 4?

Raghu Srinivasan - 3 years ago

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If I'm interpreting your example correctly, that polygon would not be considered a plus-plus since there is a side of length two.

Bryan Hung - 3 years ago

How do you get claim 3? Why do the vertical moves need to equal horizontal moves?

Shashwat Garg - 2 years, 12 months ago

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Because every horizontal move of 1 unit must be followed by a vertical move of 1 unit and visa versa.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 12 months ago

Think of stairs

Mayukh Biswas - 2 years, 12 months ago

2 squares in a row has a perimeter of 6 - not divisible by 4? 4 squares in a row has a perimeter of 10 - also not divisible by 4? Something is wrong with your claims

Mark Borghardt - 2 years, 12 months ago

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Hi Mark, Two squares in a row is not a plus plus because it has sides of length 2.

Justin Roughley - 2 years, 12 months ago

For clarification, I think Claim 3 is derived from (left moves + right moves) = (up moves + down moves), and then by substitution, you know they are all equal.

Peter Freese - 2 years, 12 months ago

I misunderstand something: The “basic” yellow shape is 11+9=20 perimeter. I can add another “cross” on the right, thus increase the perimeter by 9, into 29, add another cross (increase by 9), and finally reach 11+223*9=2018 perimeter, can’t I?

Doron Ophir - 2 years, 12 months ago

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1 cross is 12. 2 crosses are 20. So no.

Hugh Wallis - 2 years, 12 months ago

For every additional plus, via your definition, you have to subtract 1 side to link the plus polygons together. It follows that it must still be divisible by 4.

Sean Matthew Tan - 2 years, 12 months ago

Isn't square also a plus plus polygon?

Mayukh Biswas - 2 years, 12 months ago

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The right angles in the problem are the exterior angles, not the interior angles.

Sean Matthew Tan - 2 years, 12 months ago

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Erratum: You can consider it, but you won’t be able to make another plus-plus polygon from there.

Sean Matthew Tan - 2 years, 12 months ago

only a unit square because you have to move first left/right, then up/down, for example you can't do consecutive left, lefts.

Kendall Kick - 2 years, 12 months ago

2000 is divisible by 4. Create a “square” with 250 right angles per side. Stack two “club” shapes (perimeter 9) on two of the 4 “corners”. Perimeter = 2018...

* Wait, I see, you would effectively only increase the perimeter by 8 per club shape not 9. MB...

John Elliott - 2 years, 12 months ago

Very elegant and concise

Malcolm Rich - 2 years, 12 months ago

This solution reminds of the Seven Bridges of Königsberg problem.

e sch - 2 years, 12 months ago

thanks this answer helped

Nishant Sahoo - 2 years, 11 months ago

Wow I become fan of u

Anshuman Pandey - 2 years, 11 months ago
Jeremy Galvagni
Jun 2, 2018

The unit square is a plus-plus with perimeter 4. There are 4 fundamental ways to change the perimeter of a plus-plus.

  • add 2 squares to turn a one-square concavity into an outward facing part. Shown in red. This does not change the perimeter.

  • add 3 squares to an inward corner. Shown in green. This increases the perimeter by 4.

  • add 4 squares to an outer edge. Shown in blue. This increases the perimeter by 8.

  • fill in a larger concavity. Like the blue rule, but this will decrease the perimeter by 4 or 8.

So the perimeter of a plus-plus will always be a multiple of 4. Since 2018 is not a multiple of 4, the answer is No .

"There are 4 fundamental ways to change the perimeter of a plus-plus" - I would like to see a proper proof for this one. May be I do not see something, but It does not looks self obvious for me.

Kirill Butin - 3 years ago

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Response to Kirill above: Think of selecting an arbitrary edge to be removed for the plus-plus to be extended; for visualization, assessment that it is horizontal (if it vertical, you can just rotate the image so that it is now horizontal). Now for the plus-plus to be closed, that edge must have 2 adjacent edges to it, each of which is either pointing up or down. Therefore, the selected edge can only have 3 possible cases: both adjacenr edges are up (corresponding to the first point), one adjacent edge up and one down (corresponding to the second point), or both adjacent edges pointed down (corresponding to the third point). The fourth point is a reverse of the previous ones by reversing the previous (extension) laws on the empty space.

Dan McCammon - 2 years, 12 months ago

What do they mean with meet at right angle? Is this image possible? image image

Jaime Barragan - 2 years, 12 months ago

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where is the image?

Mehdi K. - 2 years, 12 months ago

As you build up your plus-plus by adding your elements, you have another plus-plus at each stage. But there is no requirement that the construction should be a plus-plus during the building process... only the final shape must be a plus-plus. Your proof does not admit this possibility. We could start with a non-plus-plus and modify it by adding or removing elements. (I'm still convinced the result will be a multiple of 4 but for me it's still unproven.)

Kev Morgan - 2 years, 12 months ago

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Bryan Hung above clearly proves the result.

Kev Morgan - 2 years, 12 months ago

The idea is not that you're looking to build a plus-plus with a specific perimeter p, but instead starting from the most basic plus-plus (a square), and then continually modifying it to create the next least-complex plus-plus. The point is that this process can be used to make any plus-plus, just by completing this process n number of times, and therefore in reverse, any plus-plus must be able to be reverted into a square but following the reverse of these laws.

Dan McCammon - 2 years, 12 months ago

if you take one yellow shape (cross) and you "add" 502 green shapes ("3 squares to an inward corner") you should have a plus-plus with perimeter 2018 infact 10+502*4=2018 so in my opinion the answer should be "Yes".

vittorio moia - 2 years, 12 months ago

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it is 12+502*4 in your case.

A Former Brilliant Member - 2 years, 12 months ago

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you are right: it is 10+501*4+6. My shape does not work. :(

vittorio moia - 2 years, 12 months ago

I'm not sure what shape you are saying has perimeter 10. No such plus-plus exists.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 12 months ago

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You are right, my shape does not work. By the way : the yellow cross has perimeter 12, but by adding the first green shape its perimeter becomes 12-2= 10. The total perimeter looks like 12-2+6-2+6-2+.....6. My fault was not considering that the last green shape added had a perimeter of 6 and not 4 so the perimeter was not 10+502 4 instead was 10+501 4+6. I am sorry for having wasted your time. :(

vittorio moia - 2 years, 12 months ago

What about the red rectangle on a stand-alone basis? Isn't this a plus-plus with perimeter 6?

John Barnhart - 2 years, 12 months ago

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No, that would break the rule of having 2 sides not at 90 degrees to each other, along the perimeter where it's 2 edges long.

Sam Pickering - 2 years, 12 months ago
Jeffrey Zhou
Jun 12, 2018

Notice that any plus-plus can be changed (I think of it sides being pushed out) into a rectangular-esque shape, while still preserving the perimeter:

Call the number of squares along one side of this shape n , and the number of squares along the other side m . We can thus model an equation to find the perimeter of such a shape:

p = 12 + 4 ( n 2 ) + 4 ( m 2 ) p = 12 + 4(n - 2) + 4(m - 2)

It is clear that the perimeter of any plus plus must be divisible by four, and as 2018 is not, there is no plus-plus with a perimeter of 2018 .

Your approach is good.But please elaborate on how you got the formula and why 12 why n-2. etc.It would be very helpful.

Vishnu Deshmukh - 2 years, 12 months ago

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At large rectangle

4 vertex : 12 sides

2 large sides ( n ) : 2 * 2 * (n-2) sides

the other 2 large sides ( m ) : 2 * 2 * (m-2) sides

Dong kwan Yoo - 2 years, 12 months ago

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Yeah that was exactly my thought process

Jeffrey Zhou - 2 years, 12 months ago
Vinod Kumar
Jun 11, 2018

Prime factorization of 2018 is 2 and 1009. This shows that it will not be possible to satisfy the constraints of the problem.

Moderator note:

This assumes the part that really needs to be proved (the divisibility by 4).

1) You should state your observation, so people understand how you arrived at the conclusion

2) Do your best to prove your observations! This is key to understanding what is happening.

I'm pretty sure that you forgot to tell us how exactly does this shows "that it will not be possible to satisfy the constraints of the problem"

Kirill Butin - 2 years, 12 months ago

Simply stated, the divisibility by 4 is missing.

Vinod Kumar - 2 years, 12 months ago

What does prime factorization have to do with a plus-plus? Not to challenge your conclusion, honestly wondering.

Robert Kelleher - 2 years, 12 months ago

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Not that I pretend to know as much about anything as anyone here and Im sure that I may have missed something in solving this problem the way that I did, but I also solved it how he solved it. Every time you change the plus-plus you change it by factors of 4. Since every side is of length 1, then the sum of all of the sides (perimeter), must be able to be factored into multiples of 4. 2018 is not divisible by 4, so a plus-plus with a perimeter of 2018 can't exist.

Jacob Lopez - 2 years, 12 months ago

What are the constraints you are referring to?Please elaborate,Sir.

Vishnu Deshmukh - 2 years, 12 months ago
Bob Van Boekel
Jun 12, 2018

For every side, there is one 90 degrees angle. For the shape to connect the number of (90 degrees) angles should be dividable by 4. perimeter 2018 means 2018 sides and thus 2018 angles. 2018 does not divide 4.

This seems like an interesting approach, but can you elaborate on why the number of angles must be divisible by 4? It seems intuitively obvious, but I'm not sure how to formalize it.

Bryan Hung - 2 years, 12 months ago

How is "for every side,there is one 90 degree angle"? Please elaborate.I did not get your statement.

Vishnu Deshmukh - 2 years, 12 months ago

Not necessarily, there are 270 degree angles in the shape too

Alan Weng - 2 years, 11 months ago
Stephen Emmerson
Jun 16, 2018

Imagine a checkerboard with squares of side 1. The external perimeter of a plus-plus must have the same colour squares adjacent to it on the outside (and the opposite colour inside). E.g. all the squares touching the perimeter of the shape by the side (not by a corner) are white, and all the internal squares touching the perimeter are black. This is true because the perimeter turns by 90 degrees which will go along another side of the same white square, or along a side of another white square.

So, we can think of the interior of the plus-plus as consisting of black and white squares, but none of the white squares are adjacent to the perimeter.

The perimeter of all the black squares taken individually is obviously a multiple of 4. This consists of the external perimeter of the plus-plus, as well as internal sides, each of which can be removed by filling in one of the white squares. Every time we fill in an internal white square we lose 4 units. Once we have filled in all the internal white squares we still have a multiple of 4.

In fact, if the plus-plus can be laid on a chess board covering B black squares and W white squares, then its perimeter is the absolute value of 4(B-W).

First divide the whole figure into two parts-the perimeter of First part corresponds to the first two digits(obviously,20)and that of 2nd corresponds to the last two digits(that is,1+1+1+.....32).So,when we read it together,since altogether it is a single plus plus polygon,we get 2032 instead of 2018. (Pardon me if my method is incorrect/inappropriate.I got it this way😊)

Adam Abader
Jun 11, 2018

What if the shape is made such that when the shapes are joined, each only lose perimeter of 2??? Then it would be even???

If you try doing that I think you will see you end up with two sides of length 2.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 12 months ago
K van der Veen
Jun 17, 2018

In order to come back to the starting position you have to go up and left the same number of times as down and right respectively. So the total perimeter should always be a multiple of four, which 2018 is not.

Kanhaiya Yadav
Jun 17, 2018

No matter how big plus-plus that may be. It should be closed figure. To form a close figure the boundry should rotate exactly 360°. A clockwise rotation of 90° cancels a anti-clockwise 90° rotaion. That implies in any plus-plus polygon there should be 4 more rotation of any one kind than other. That means total rotation should be a integer multiple of 360°. This implies there should be exactly '4n' sides to the polygon. Where 'n' is any integer. 2018 is not multiple of 4. So answer is 'NO'

Mitch Peacock
Jun 15, 2018

Clearly the first is a square (perimeter 4), the second a cross (perimeter 12), and from then on a new one increases the perimeter by four--this purely by experiment. I hypothesise that this continues indefinitely. As such, since 12 is dividable by four, then all plus-plus' from the cross (with perimeter 4) upwards in size, must also be divisible by four. 2018 is not divisible by 4, therefore no plus-plus exists with a perimeter of 2018.

* I can not visualise a plus-plus with a perimeter equal to eight--such as would be possible with some of the other solutions here. Can anyone enlighten me? *

Yotam Dvir
Jun 14, 2018

In drawing the polygon, after every two sides drawn our pen moves in one of the following directions: ( 1 , 1 ) , ( 1 , 1 ) , ( 1 , 1 ) , ( 1 , 1 ) (1, 1), (1, -1), (-1, -1), (-1, 1) .

Let's say that the pen moved in these directions a , b , c , d a, b, c, d times respectively.

So the total number of double moves the pen made is a + b + c + d a + b + c + d .

After drawing the entire polygon, the pen must be back at the origin.

Therefore, a ( 1 , 1 ) + b ( 1 , 1 ) + c ( 1 , 1 ) + d ( 1 , 1 ) = 0 a(1, 1) + b(1, -1) + c(-1, -1) + d(-1, 1) = 0 or equivalently ( a c ) ( 1 , 1 ) + ( b d ) ( 1 , 1 ) = 0 (a-c)(1, 1) + (b-d)(1, -1) = 0 .

Since ( 1 , 1 ) , ( 1 , 1 ) {(1, 1), (1, -1)} are linearly independent, this only holds when a c = 0 a-c=0 and b d = 0 b-d=0 .

So the total number of double moves the pen made is 2 a + 2 b 2a + 2b , an even number.

Thus the total number of single moves the pen made is divisible by 4, which excludes 2018.

Abd Fml<3
Jun 14, 2018

The smallest plus-plus possible is actually a simple square, so its perimeter is 4 . The second one takes the shape of a "+" and its perimeter is 4 + 2 4 = 12 4 + 2 \cdot 4 = 12

( 4 side lengths are reused and 2 are added for each sides).

The third one would be a "+" but with 3 more squares in one of the corners, so by the same way we get 12 + 2 2 12 + 2 \cdot 2 , thus, its perimeter is 16 . This way we see that each figure is divisible by 4 . As 2018 isn't divisible by 4, there is no plus-plus with a perimeter of 2018.

This is my first comment and I'm French so please be indulgent with me ;)

Sa Walsh
Jun 14, 2018

I just did 2s+3s=2018 and couldn't solve for whole number?

David Enos
Jun 14, 2018

This can be viewed as a wandering path problem, with some special constraints:

  1. You must return to your point of origin. So for every move away from the origin you must eventually make a move back towards the origin.
  2. Additionally, you must not retrace or cross your own path, therefore the final shape of your path will always describe a closed object - in this case a polygon because of the 1 unit / right angle constraints.
  3. The shortest path is a square (4 steps).
  4. Because of 1 thru 3, if you increase the number of points visited, it must always be by adding squares (4 steps).

Therefore the solution set is all positive integer multiples of 4 - which does not include 2018.

Not all multiples of 4. 8 is not possible.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 12 months ago
Aman Mishra
Jun 14, 2018

Stack the smaller plusplus of perimeter 20 with two another of same kind from above and below. Now its effective perimeter becomes 20-(7+7) which is 6.now repeat this with the stacked plusplus in both directions.So in order to achieve a plusplus with perimeter 2018 it must be divisible by 6, which is not the case here and hence not possible.

There is a pattern in the perimeters of the first three plus-plus polygons: 4 (unit square), 12 (plus sign), 20 (left, yellow figure on the problem). Notice that 4 = 4 x 1; 12 = 4 x 3; 20 = 4 x 5; which means that for a perimeter P we must find a whole number k {0, 1, 2, 3, 4 ...} satisfying P = 4 x (2k + 1). For P = 2018 there is no solution.

It is quite a leap from 3 instances of a pattern for some small values of k all the way to P=2018. Plenty of patterns that work for small values don't actually continue. That's why we look for proofs. In fact your formula simplifies to P=8k+4 which would imply P cannot be a multiple of 8. But except for 8 itself , all multiples of 4 are possible.

Jeremy Galvagni - 2 years, 12 months ago

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Oh, man, that's right. Thanks for your correction.

A Former Brilliant Member - 2 years, 12 months ago
Daniel Nicholls
Jun 12, 2018

For it to be a plus plus the boundary along any given edge, regardless of complexity (top, bottom, left or right) must be an odd number of unit lines. Given this it logically follows that if any two are odd the other two cannot be and you therefore can't produce a valid plus plus shape.

Nirmal K
Jun 12, 2018

I tried in a simple way.I found out the perimeter of the left part of the plus plus as well as the right part.They are the digits of a 4-digit no,since on the whole,they constitute a plus plus polygon,and I got the resulting perimeter as 2032,with 32 as the right side's perimeter.So,it is not 2018.

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