Rational values

Geometry Level 5

In the interval [ 0 , 2 ] [0, 2] , how many rational values of x x are there, such that sin ( x π ) \sin (x \pi) is rational?


The answer is 9.

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11 solutions

There exists a rational number k such that c o s ( k π ) = s i n ( x π ) cos(k\pi)=sin(x\pi) . Denote k = p q , c o s ( k π ) = a Q k=\frac {p}{q},cos(k\pi)=a \in Q There exists one and only polynomial f n ( x ) Z [ x ] f_n(x) \in Z[x] satisfies f n ( 2 c o s θ ) = 2 c o s ( n θ ) , θ R f_n(2cos\theta)=2cos(n\theta), \forall \theta \in R . d e g f n ( x ) = n deg f_n(x)=n and the coefficient of highest degree =1. This can easily be proved by induction as f 1 ( x ) = x , f 2 ( x ) = x 2 2 f_1(x)=x,f_2(x)=x^2-2 and f n + 1 ( x ) = x f n ( x ) f n 1 ( x ) f_{n+1}(x)=xf_n(x)-f_{n-1}(x) hence f q ( 2 a ) = f q ( 2 c o s ( p q π ) ) = 2 c o s ( p π ) = 2 ( 1 ) p f_q(2a)=f_q(2cos(\frac {p}{q} \pi))=2cos(p\pi)=2(-1)^p Then 2a is a rational root of polynomial with integer coefficient f q ( 2 a ) 2 ( 1 ) p f_q(2a)-2(-1)^p the coefficient of highest degree =1 \implies 2 a Z 2a \in Z . a 1 |a| \leq 1 \implies 2 a 2 |2a| \leq 2 \implies 2 a 0 , 1 , 1 , 2 , 2 2a \in {0,1,-1,2,-2} \implies a { 0 , 1 2 , 1 2 , 1 , 1 } a \in \{0,\frac {1}{2},\frac {-1}{2},1,-1\} s i n ( x π ) = a sin(x\pi)= a then it is easy to check that there are nine values of x satisfy.

This solution is similar in spirit to the first intended solution.

Most submitted solutions explicitly used the Niven's theorem. Following an old mathematical tradition, we strongly encourage everybody to only use those theorems, which proofs you know. So if you did not know the proof of Niven's theorem before, please learn it now. By the way, the relevant algebraic number theory goes back at least to Dedekind and Kronecker. It is not clear who proved this result first, but it was likely rediscovered multiple times, long before it appeared in 1956 in Ivan Niven's textbook "Irrational Numbers".

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago

I'll just add: for anyone having difficulty with the central statement, f n + 1 ( x ) = x f n ( x ) f n 1 ( x ) f_{n+1}(x)= xf_{n}(x)-f_{n-1}(x) simply observe that it is equivalent to saying that for any unitary z z , the expression z n + 1 ( 2 R e z ) z n + z n 1 z^{n+1} -(2 Re z)z^n+z^{n-1} is a pure imaginary number. (Actually it's zero, which can be easily seen by replacing z n 1 z^{n-1} with z n z ˉ z^{n}\bar z .)

Peter Byers - 4 years, 10 months ago
Calvin Lin Staff
May 13, 2014

Solution 1: We will first consider the problem for cos x π , \cos x\pi, instead of sin x π \sin x\pi and prove that if x x and cos x π \cos x\pi are both rational, then cos x π \cos x\pi is 0 , 0, ± 1 2 , \pm \frac{1}{2}, or ± 1. \pm 1. To do this, consider a sequence of rational numbers a n = 2 cos ( 2 n x π ) , a_n=2\cdot \cos (2^n x\pi), n = 0 , 1 , 2 , . . . n=0,1,2,... Note that for all n 1 n\geq 1 a n = a n 1 2 2. a_n=a_{n-1}^2-2. So if a 0 a_0 is a rational number with the denominator (in simplest terms) q > 1 q>1 , then a 1 a_1 is a rational number with the denominator q 2 , q^2, a 2 a_2 has denominator q 4 q^4 and so on. Since x x is rational, all multiples of x π x\pi modulo 2 π 2\pi belong to a finite set, so the numbers a n a_n belong to a finite set, and their denominators are bounded. This is a contradiction, so a 0 = 2 cos x π a_0=2\cos x\pi must be an integer.

Since sin x π = cos ( ( 1 2 x ) π ) , \sin x\pi=\cos ((\frac{1}{2}-x)\pi), we conclude that sin x π \sin x\pi for a rational x x must be one of the numbers 1 , 1 2 , 0 , 1 2 , 1. -1,\ -\frac{1}{2},\ 0,\ \frac{1}{2},\ 1. We can count that there are 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 9 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 9 solutions.

Solution 2: Since ( e ± i π p q ) q ( 1 ) p = 0 \left( e^{\pm i\pi \frac{p}{q} } \right)^ q - (-1)^p = 0 ,hence e ± i π p q e^{\pm i \pi \frac{p}{q} } is an algebraic integer. Thus, 2 sin ( p q π ) = i ( e i π p q e i π p q ) 2 \sin \left( \frac{p}{q} \pi \right) = -i\left(e^{i \pi \frac{p}{q} } - e^{-i \pi \frac{p}{q} }\right) , which is the difference and product of algebraic integers, is also an algebraic integer.

Suppose we have p q \frac{p}{q} such that sin ( p q π ) \sin \left(\frac{p}{q} \pi \right) is rational, then 2 sin ( p q π ) 2\sin \left( \frac{p}{q} \pi \right) is a rational algebraic integer. However, the only rational algebraic integers are the integers themselves, which means that 2 sin ( p q π ) 2\sin \left( \frac{p}{q} \pi \right) is an integer. Since 2 2 sin θ 2 -2 \leq 2 \sin \theta \leq 2 , hence this implies that we must have sin ( p q π ) { 1 , 1 2 , 0 , 1 2 , 1 } \sin \left( \frac{p}{q} \pi\right) \in \{ -1, -\frac{1}{2}, 0, \frac{1}{2}, 1 \} .

We can count that there are 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 9 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 9 solutions.

Note: This is known as Niven's Theorem .

Nice -- particularly that you posted both solutions.

Peter Byers - 4 years, 10 months ago

Niven's theorem states that the only rational values of θ in the interval 0 ≤ θ ≤ π 2 \frac{\pi}{2} for which the sine of θ degrees is also a rational number are:

sin 0 = 0 \sin 0 = 0 on the x axis

sin π 6 = 1 2 \sin \frac{\pi}{6} = \frac 12 in between x and y axis

sin π 2 = 1 \sin \frac{\pi}{2} = 1 on the y axis

Thus, there are four rational values along the x and y axis and four in between the axis for 0 ≤ x < 2. The ninth rational value is for x = 2.

I guess, It is OK to use a named theorem.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Lawrence Limesa
May 20, 2014

Niven’s Theorem states that if r π \frac {r} {\pi} and sin r \sin r are both rational, then the sine take values 0, ± 1 2 \pm \frac {1} {2} , and ± 1 \pm 1 .

Let x = r π x= \frac {r} {\pi}

Based on Niven’s Theorem that states if x x and s i n ( π x ) sin (\pi x) are both rational, then the sine take values 0, ± 1 2 \pm \frac {1} {2} , and ± 1 \pm 1 .

Therefore, there are 9 9 values of x x , which are 0 , 1 6 , 1 2 , 5 6 , 1 , 7 6 , 3 2 , 11 6 , 2 0, \frac {1} {6}, \frac {1}{2}, \frac {5} {6}, 1, \frac {7} {6}, \frac {3} {2}, \frac {11} {6}, 2 producing the sine values of 0 , 1 2 , 1 , 1 2 , 0 , 1 2 , 1 1 2 , 0 0, \frac {1}{2}, 1, \frac {1} {2}, 0, -\frac {1} {2}, -1 -\frac{1} {2},0 respectively.

I guess it is OK to use a named theorem.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Noah Fang
May 20, 2014

The interval for x x , [ 0 , 2 ] [0,2] , translates into the interval [ 0 , 2 π ] [0, 2\pi] for x π x\pi , or one full period for a sine function.

From one full period, the obvious rational values are the maxima, minima, and infection points, 0 0 , 1 1 , and 1 -1 . This yields a total of 5 \fbox{5} values.

For the values in between maxima/minima and inflection points, the only rational one is 1 2 \frac{1}{2} , given by Niven's Theorem . This yields 4 \fbox{4} more values, one for each quadrant.

4 + 5 = 9 4 + 5 = 9 giving us 9 \fbox{9} total rational values.

I guess it is OK to use a named theorem.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Lab Bhattacharjee
May 20, 2014

Using Niven's Theorem, if y and sin π y are rational, sin x = 0 , ± 1 , ± 1 2 \text{ if } y \text{ and } \sin \pi y \text{ are rational, }\sin x=0,\pm 1,\pm \frac12

sin x = 0 , x = n π as 0 n π 2 π 0 n 2 \sin x=0, x=n\pi\text{ as } 0\le n\pi\le 2\pi\implies 0\le n\le 2

sin x = ± 1 cos x = 0 , x = n π + π 2 as 0 n π + π 2 2 π , 0 n 1 \sin x=\pm 1\implies \cos x=0, x=n\pi+\frac\pi2 \text{ as } 0\le n\pi+\frac\pi2\le 2\pi , 0\le n\le 1

sin x = ± 1 2 sin 2 x = 1 4 = sin 2 π 6 x = n π ± π 6 , \sin x=\pm \frac12\implies \sin^2x=\frac14=\sin^2\frac\pi6\implies x=n\pi\pm \frac\pi6,

If x = n π + π 6 , as 0 n π + π 6 2 π 0 n 1 \text{If }x=n\pi+\frac\pi6, \text{ as } 0\le n\pi+\frac\pi6\le 2\pi \implies 0\le n\le1

If x = n π π 6 , as 0 n π π 6 2 π 1 n 2 \text{If }x=n\pi-\frac\pi6, \text{ as } 0\le n\pi-\frac\pi6\le 2\pi \implies 1\le n\le2

decided not to feature this one after all

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Ankit Goel
May 20, 2014

sin(pix) has only the following rational values at rational x:- 0, ±1/2, ±1 the corresponding values of x are : 0,1/6,1/2,5/6,1,7/6,3/2,11/6,2 Hence, there are 9 possible values of x.

"sin(pix) has only the following rational values at rational x:- 0, ±1/2, ±1 " No justification given

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Oscar Harmon
May 20, 2014

From the Niven's Theorem (or the unit circle if you don't like being rigorous), we know that the only values of 0 x π 2 π 0\le x\pi\le2\pi such that x Q x\in\mathbb{Q} and sin ( x π ) Q \sin(x\pi)\in\mathbb{Q} are

sin 0 = sin π = sin 2 π = 0 \sin{0}=\sin{\pi}=\sin{2\pi}=0 ,

sin π 2 = 1 \sin{\frac{\pi}{2}}=1 ,

sin 3 π 2 = 1 \sin{\frac{3\pi}{2}}=-1 ,

sin π 6 = sin 5 π 6 = 1 2 \sin{\frac{\pi}{6}}=\sin{\frac{5\pi}{6}}=\frac{1}{2} , and

sin 7 π 6 = sin 11 π 6 = 1 2 \sin{\frac{7\pi}{6}}=\sin{\frac{11\pi}{6}}=-\frac{1}{2}

Thus, there are 7 values of x x .

"From the Niven's Theorem (or the unit circle if you don't like being rigorous)," Some lack of understanding is evident here. "Thus, there are 7 values of x x " Should be 9, a misprint.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Bùi Kiên
May 20, 2014

Niven's theorem states that the only rational values of θ \theta in the interval 0 ≤ θ ≤ 90 for which the sine of θ degrees is also a rational number are:

sin 0 o = 0 ; sin 3 0 o = 1 2 ; sin 9 0 o = 1. \sin 0^o = 0; \sin 30^o = \frac{1}{2}; \sin 90^o = 1.

If the Niven's theorem is used, then at least the rest of the problem should be written up well.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Dhelia Dhelia
May 20, 2014

if θ is in whole degrees , then θ° = πx/180 radians = π*(p/q) radians

so we wish to find all rational multiples of π so that sin((p/q)*π)) rational

is p/q ϵℚ then e^( ±iπ*(p/q)) is an algebraic integers since

(e^( ±iπ*(p/q))^q-(-1)^p = 0

thus

2 sin(π (p/q)) = -i(e^(iπ (p/q))-e^(-iπ*(p/q)) is the difference and product of

algebraic integers, and therefore an algebraic integer.

However, the only rational algebraic integers are normal integers

Thus, the only values of sin((p/q)*π) which could be rational,

are those for which 2 sin(π*(p/q))

is an integer,then that imply sin(π*(p/q)) ϵ {-1,-1/2,0,1/2,1}

sin (π*x) = y where x,y are rationals then y must be 0±1/2±1

therefore we see that sin (π*x) rationals on interval x {0,2}

0,π/6,π/2, 5π/6, π, 7π/6, 3π/2, 11π/6, 2π

Essentially copied from an answer to an old question: http://efreedom.com/Question/5-87756/Sin-Rational

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago

Niven's theorem states that the only rational values of , such that is rational are .

Now . So is also rational for .

Using cyclotomic fields it can be proved that is rational only if . Since is rational and and are rational.

Therefore we see that is only rational 0, pi/6, pi/2, 5pi/6, 1pi, 7pi/6, 3\pi/2, 11pi/6, 2pi

Copied blindly from Quora: http://www.quora.com/Mathematics/In-the-interval-0-2-how-many-rational-values-of-x-are-there-such-that-sin-x%CF%80-is-rational

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago

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I guess this is really funny!

Pranjal Jain - 6 years, 5 months ago

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