Rotated strings height

Geometry Level 1

Two unit circles are joined by many equally spaced strings of length 2 2 to form a cylinder. The upper circle is rotated by 9 0 90^\circ while the lower is fixed. Naturally, the two circles come closer together.

What is the new distance between them?


The answer is 1.41421356237.

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8 solutions

Notice from the figure that the distance between the two shown points is: 2 = 1 2 + 1 2 + h 2 2 = \sqrt{1^2+1^2+h^2} Hence h = 2 1.4142 h=\sqrt{2}\approx\boxed{1.4142}

why is it root 2? where did that come from?

Abigail Keenan - 3 years ago

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the length size is 2 , so that's h

Andrei Zapciroiu - 3 years ago

2 = 1 2 + 1 2 + h 2 2 = \sqrt{1^2+1^2+h^2} 2 2 = 2 + h 2 2^2 = 2+h^2 2 = h 2 2 = h^2 2 = h \sqrt{2} = h

i agree with that

Abed Ahmad - 3 years ago

Elegant solution using coordinates.

Anurag Pandey - 3 years ago

math is insane. there's always a more elegant solution. i did it the way posted just below this, using the pythagorean theorem in two dimensions twice

David Taylor - 3 years ago

Why the answer is not √(4-π^2/4)≈1.238 ?If you cut it, you will get a right-angled triangle with a hypotenuse of 2 and a bottom of π/2(2πr/(90/360)=π/2), so the length of the other side is √(4-π^2/4) that is the diastance between the two circles.

Dong Bingyu - 3 years ago

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I'm glad you described your thought process.

Using it, the only way this would work is if the string curves along the perimeter of the circle. (i.e. if you were to look top-down, the string's path would appear to trace along the circle, covering a distance of π/2). This arises because of the angle of π/2 radians as you described. In order for the trig to balance out, (a string of length two, being drawn along a circular arc of π/2), you do end up with ≈1.238

However, the string remains tight as the circle is turned 90 degrees or (π/2 radians) and traces a path of a straight line. No π required (unless you want to find the sine and cosine of π/2 to measure planar displacement, which gives x,y coordinates of (1,0) to (0,1) )

The end point has moved left by one radius (1) and down (or up) one radius. When you do this, it affords the solution, as described above, or below.

Echo Edwards - 2 years, 12 months ago

Only if there had been an animation showing this magnificent motion.. it would have been beyond enlightening.

Aniruddha Bagchi - 2 years, 11 months ago

* * * They can't be unit circles, because strings are being attached to them. Let's say they are unit hoops. They will be closer than the sqrt(2), because strings are pulling against other strings and interfering with how far apart it can be pulled.

Dennis Rodman - 2 years, 8 months ago
Ir J
Jun 4, 2018

We can solve this problem easily by taking into consideration only one of the string (taking all string at once won't make the difference). Now, what's left to do is to map out the movement of that string.

Let's look at both circles on top view:

  • The Red X would be the tip of the string at the lower circle and the Red dot would be the tip of the string at the upper circle.

Before Rotation:

After Rotation: It would seem to appear then that it moved along the X direction by a distance of √2.

Using the information that the string length was 2 and it moved along X by √2. We can calculate the height.

H 2 H^{2} = 2 2 2^{2} - 2 2 √2^{2}

H 2 H^{2} = 4 - 2

H H = 2 \boxed{√2} = 1.414213562 \boxed{1.414213562}

I was trying to do the same thing But took the curved distance(arc length) instead of straight line (chord)

TANMAY GOYAL - 3 years ago

Rather we can use coordinates to map out.

TANMAY GOYAL - 3 years ago

To solve this problem, I guessed and checked. How does this work? I would rate this problem a 10 because it's confusing.

Lucia Tiberio - 3 years ago

Can u pls explain how it moved by a distance of √2 and which side is the x-axis

Vikibe K Sumi - 3 years ago

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The red point was moved from the south pole of the circle to the west pole of the circle, so to speak. There is a right triangle formed by the center of the circle, the old position, and the new position. It's a unit circle so each leg is distance 1. Thus the hypotenuse is length sqrt(2).

Richard Desper - 3 years ago
Marta Reece
May 28, 2018

The string length remains 2.

The horizontal distance between its ends being on a unit circle 9 0 90^\circ apart will be 2 \sqrt2 .

So the vertical distance between the loops will be 2 2 ( 2 ) 2 = 2 1.414 \sqrt{2^2-(\sqrt2)^2}=\sqrt2\approx\boxed{1.414}

Joël Ganesh
Jun 4, 2018

We can define the lower unit circle to be c 1 c_1 and the upper unit circle to be c 2 c_2 . Because they are both unit circles where c 2 c_2 is rotated over 90 degrees (which equals π 2 \frac{\pi}{2} rad.) we can say that for a point P on c 1 c_1 at time t t the coordinates of P would be ( x , y , z ) = ( c o s ( t ) , s i n ( t ) , 0 ) (x,y,z)=(cos(t),sin(t),0) and that for a point Q on c 2 c_2 at time t t (same variable) the coordinates of Q would be ( x , y , z ) = ( c o s ( t + π 2 ) , s i n ( t + π 2 ) , h ) (x,y,z)=(cos(t+\frac{\pi}{2}),sin(t+\frac{\pi}{2}),h) where h h is a constant (between 0 and 2). Our objective is to find the value for h h . We know that P Q = 2 |PQ|=2 . This means that ( x P x Q ) ² + ( y P y Q ) ² + ( z P z Q ) ² = 2 ² = 4 (x_P-x_Q)²+(y_P-y_Q)²+(z_P-z_Q)² = 2² = 4 and thus that ( c o s ( t ) c o s ( t + π 2 ) ) ² + ( s i n ( t ) s i n ( t + π 2 ) ) ² + h ² = 4 (cos(t)-cos(t+\frac{\pi}{2}))²+(sin(t)-sin(t+\frac{\pi}{2}))²+h²=4 . Writing the squares out with some terms switching places gives us ( s i n ² ( t ) + c o s ² ( t ) ) + ( s i n ² ( t + π 2 ) + c o s ² ( t + π 2 ) ) 2 ( c o s ( t ) c o s ( t + π 2 ) + s i n ( t ) s i n ( t + π 2 ) ) + h ² = 4. (sin²(t) + cos²(t))+(sin²(t+\frac{\pi}{2})+cos²(t+\frac{\pi}{2})) - 2(cos(t)cos(t+\frac{\pi}{2}) + sin(t)sin(t+\frac{\pi}{2}))+h²=4. Furthermore, the term c o s ( t ) c o s ( t + π 2 ) + s i n ( t ) s i n ( t + π 2 ) cos(t)cos(t+\frac{\pi}{2}) + sin(t)sin(t+\frac{\pi}{2}) equals c o s ( t ( t + π 2 ) ) = c o s ( π 2 ) = 0 cos(t-(t+\frac{\pi}{2})) = cos(-\frac{\pi}{2})=0 because c o s ( u ) c o s ( v ) + s i n ( u ) s i n ( v ) = c o s ( u v ) cos(u)cos(v)+sin(u)sin(v)=cos(u-v) . So we get 1 + 1 2 0 + h ² = 4 1+1-2\cdot 0 + h²=4 , h ² = 2 h² = 2 and this gives us the final answer: h = 2 = 1.414... h=\sqrt{2}=\boxed{1.414...} The method I used was more complicated than others I have seen for this problem, nevertheless I wanted to share my strategy for solving it.

I also made a figure of what I mean by all this in the picture below (not on scale (some lines are not correct)). The coordinates of point P and Q vary on the circles where they are at (component t involved).

this is exactly what i thought in the first go, but then i thought there has to be a simpler way so i solved like others only. thanks for putting this up here, another method is always appreciated

Keshav Kasat - 3 years ago

Could you explain further with some drawings , thanks so much

Jeremy Galvagni
Jun 3, 2018

The top view makes it clear that there are three mutually perpendicular directions with lengths 1, 1 and distance, d. The space diagonal is 2 because it is the unchanging string length.

The 3-d Pythagorean theorem for this is 1 2 + 1 2 + d 2 = 2 2 1^{2}+1^{2}+d^{2}=2^{2} and solving gives d = 2 1.41421356 d=\sqrt{2}\approx1.41421356

Jochen Morent
Jun 3, 2018

When looking from the top onto the cylinder the original point of each string and the new point create a right angled triangle.

Using Pythagoras the length of the long site can be calculated to be √(2).

When looking from the site onto the cylinder the strings form a right angled triangle again.

The length of the strings (2) is the longest site, while the √(2) calculated above is the base of the triangle. The height of the cylinder is the third site of the triangle.

Using Pythagoras again we can calculate, that

h² = 2² - (√(2))² Root and square cancel each other. h² = 4 - 2 h² = 2 h = √2

primer sansano que veo por aquí 👍

Jose Fernandez Goycoolea - 2 years, 11 months ago

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kjhbdas toi hace rato, wena xD

Hjalmar Orellana Soto - 2 years, 11 months ago
Levi Rigsby
Jun 7, 2018

I just kinda got lucky, I realized it was between 0 and 2 but i thought it was exponential and I answered 1.41 or sqrt(2)

Multiply b·h·L where b is the base (b=2), h is the height of the inicial cylinder (h=2) and L is the length of the string (L=2). The outcome of bhL is 8 and that will be a fixed constant. If the string was flexible, by turning the cylinder 90 degrees we would get a new string length of L'=2√2. The height h' would be lower than h and the base b would remain the same. Knowing that b·h·L= 8, b·h'·L' is also equal to 8. Therefore you calculate what the new height h' should be: h'=8/(b·L') or h'=8/(2·2√2)=√2

Pablo García - 2 years, 11 months ago

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