Sex-ratio

Logic Level 1

In a certain country, each couple stops having children if and only if they have a female. After many generations, what will the sex ratio in this country be?

Details and Assumptions :

  • The only exception to the rule stated above is for multiple births (twins, triplets, etc.). After a multiple birth with any number of female children, the couple stops having children.
  • Assume that all couples are capable of having female children, and that the chance of either gender is equal for each birth.
  • Assume that life expectancy is the same for males and females.
Significantly more males than females Significantly more females than males Approximately 1:1

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21 solutions

Andrew Hayes Staff
Mar 16, 2018

No matter what conditions you place on stopping having children, the ratio will always be 1:1.

Consider the births as coin flips, and having a girl as flipping heads. You perform an experiment in which you keep on flipping until you flip heads, and then you stop. Then you perform this same experiment many times. Since this process simply involves flipping a coin many times, there will be approximately the same amount of heads as tails. All the experiment does is partition the flips in a certain way.

But boys are statistically more common. So, it is not a coin flip.

Joel Lofgren - 3 years, 2 months ago

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It's true that male births are slightly more common than female births. However, these differences tend to even out over time, and the overall sex ratio is approximately 1:1.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

I love your last sentence. That is perfectly put.

Kamran Najibfard - 3 years, 2 months ago

Even starting to do calculations on this problem is committing the Gambler's Fallacy! Past results have no effect on the probability of the next child.

Matt McNabb - 3 years, 2 months ago

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This isn't asking about a particular flip - this is asking about the Law of Large Numbers in terms of many, many coin flips. Then statistics can come into play, and we would indeed expect things to even out.

Jason Dyer Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

This assumes inaccurately that the chance of either gender is approximately equal and unrelated to the parents. As couples do have conditions that mean they will only produce children of one gender the couples who can only produce boys will keep having kids while the rest will stop.

Rufus Evison - 3 years, 2 months ago

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The ratio in terms of births is not quite 1:1, but it is close enough to fit "approximately" (the other answers, remember, are "significantly").

Jason Dyer Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

The language, "A couple stops having children if and only if they have a female" implies that all couples are capable of having female children.

There are some studies which have shown that some couples are predisposed to produce a certain gender, however, recent studies show that this is inconclusive.

If this were a real-life situation, then as long as "transmission distortion" were a sufficiently rare condition, then it would not affect the ratio much.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

I wanted to post a solution, but since I accidentally clicked a wrong answer bubble and immediately pushed "submit," I will post it here. Following the obvious geometric distribution of this situation, the probability of each couple to have "k" boys before having a girl is [(1-p)^k]*p, where p is the probability of having a girl (1/2). Then, the expression simplifies to (1/2)^k+1. We find the probabilities from k=0 to k=7 and end up with probabilities 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64, 1/128, and 1/256 respectively. Then, I took a "sample" of 256 couples and, following the probabilities, the total offspring were 255 girls and 247 boys. So the ratio is in fact 1:1.

A Former Brilliant Member - 3 years, 2 months ago

This result is incorrect, there will be more males than females

Ian Thomson - 3 years, 2 months ago

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You are correct. China has 15% more males than females. Their policy was 2 children per woman, but apparently Chinese prefer boys over girls. The result is a mis-over-population of boys compared to girls by 15%. The assumptions you have to make about human behavior to get to the mathematical results in the rest of this thread don't take into account human behavior.

Jim Standaert - 3 years, 2 months ago

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I believe China's one-child policy resulted in active female abortions and infanticide, so the proportion of the sexes is skewed due to active removal of one group. In this problem, there is no active removal of anything so the proportion will stay (close to) 1:1.

I Chang - 3 years, 2 months ago

China's policy during that period does not match the policy that is specified in the problem.

As mentioned in the other comments, there are biological factors that make boys roughly 51% over girls, but that's still "roughly 1:1".

Jason Dyer Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

I don’t think this is true for the reason of people can be “lucky” and have 5 males, there’s no max but if you have a female boom no more kids so alot of people could have multiple male children and only one female.

Kaya Rosselle - 3 years, 2 months ago

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T T H H T T T H H T T H H T H H H H T H T T T H \begin{array}{c}T & T & H & H & T & T & T & H & H & T & T & H & H & T & H & H & H & H & T & H & T & T & T & H \end{array}

This is a random sequence of heads and tails coins flips that I just generated. You'll notice that there are the same number of heads and tails (12 and 12).

Now let's partition the coin flips so that we're separating all the sub-sequences that end in heads:

T T H H T T T H H T T H H T H H H H T H T T T H \begin{array}{c}T & T & H & | & H & | & T & T & T & H & | & H & | & T & T & H & | \\ H & | & T & H & | & H & | & H & | & H & | & T & H & | & T & T & T & H \end{array}

You'll notice that there are several sub-sequences that have multiple tails before the heads. And yet, it's still the same number of heads and tails total. This kind of result is what we would expect in the situation posed in the problem. Many families with multiple boys, but also many families with just a single female.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

The "lucky" family with five males is as likely a scenario as five "unlucky" families having only females. The odds, over the long term, will even out into the 1:1 ratio as stated.

The trick is to visualize all of the birth odds as being part of the same continuum rather than viewing each family as a distinct set of odds.

Brian Egedy - 3 years, 2 months ago

I believe you are missing out on some details here.

The certain way in which the 'flips are partitioned' as you put it, is the key here. The question states "over many generations...". Well in just one generation of couples there will be a diminishing number of couples who have another chance at having a boy repeatedly until every couple has had just one girl, so the number of males born under each generation of couples will always be greater.

Or in your coin toss analogy, (let's say couples can have 3 kids in their lifetime) so first coin flip. Half are male, half female. Second flip, half of the remainder are now male too (3/4 male in total) third flip and now 7/8 of the population of children are now male. This will of course be true of every subsequent generation too.

Dylan Krakowski - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Suppose there are 16 couples all having their children at the same time, and suppose the fates give us the exact amount of children of each gender as we expect:

  • First Child: Expected 8 M, 8 F
  • Second Child: Expected 4 M, 4 F -- Total of 12 M, 12 F
  • Third Child: Expected 2 M, 2 F -- Total of 14 M, 14 F
  • Fourth Child: Expected 1 M, 1 F -- Total of 15 M, 15 F

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

This problem misses out many important details- monogamy, divorce, reproductive details of that country so you can't answer it with the given information.

Mark Smith - 3 years, 2 months ago

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The whole point of the solution is that those things don't matter. The expected values of male and female births are always approximately the same.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

China has a severe sex imbalance proving this problem's solution is false.

Mark Smith - 3 years, 2 months ago

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The conditions that lead to China's sex imbalance have nothing to do with the conditions in this problem.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

No. The sex imbalance is due to deaths, not directly family planning. Think selective abortion and infanticide, along with other selective forms of death. There's actually slightly more males than females born overall in the world, but the world is slightly more female than male. Males die younger, so there's fewer of them. This is mostly due to military activity, criminals activity, and risky behaviors, things males do far more often than females.

Harvey Bernier - 3 years, 2 months ago

The ratio of single births will approximate 1:1, however in the present day women tend to live longer on average and this will shift the population ratio such that there will be a higher proportion of women in the population. The problem with this question is that only the entry condition for the sample is stated. It is not possible to answer definitely without knowing the exit conditions also. The question also neglects the possibility of multiple births these are approximately 1/10 of all births. Now as the couple cease giving birth to a child after a girl is born this implies there can never be twin girls - the second twin would be born after another girl which is stated cannot happen. The vast majority of twins are single sex which would skew the ratio towards more boys

Craig Mitchell - 3 years, 2 months ago

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I do agree that it would be a rather grim prospect if we didn't let a couple finish their multiple birth. I've added an exception.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

There is a slight problem with the statement - "if and only if they have a girl" means that there is the infinitesimal chance of a pair of parents having boys indefinitely. Now, we might say "well of course, parents always stop or are unable to have children after some point," but the statement of the problem indicates that they would never stop if they didn't have a girl ("only if"). This means that the limit of the number of boys approaches infinity, while the limit of the number of girls is restricted to half the existing population.

In the coin analogy, this would be like saying "you may only run the experiment X times (once per couple)" - if, by chance, there is ever a large run of tails, the rest of the flips cannot "make up" for that, since the number of heads is fixed at X.

Chris Brown - 3 years, 2 months ago

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In a coin analogy, the probability of obtaining an infinite number of tails in a row is 0. We run into the indeterminate form 0 × , 0 \times \infty, which in this case resolves to 0 when evaluating the expected value.

For any arbitrarily large run of tails, the law of large numbers will always ensure that the ratio of heads and tails will always even out over an arbitrarily large number of flips.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

True, but there's no difference between one couple having a boy, then another kid, and one couple having a girl, stopping, and an entirely new couple having a kid. the probability is the same. It's just as likely for an infinite string of one child couples to be all having females first. We never specified population size

Max Montiel - 3 years, 2 months ago

I object to this problem. It's not a coin flip. From experimental statistics, there are more boys born than girls. Also, from experimental statistics, the likelihood that a second, third, etc. sibling will be the same sex is higher, but I don't recall the exact probability. Finally, the average family size also influences the result. The problem should have more clearly stated that the probability of girl vs. boy births is equal and random.

SizemoresScience Sizemore - 3 years, 2 months ago

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It's true that male births are slightly more common than female births. However, these differences tend to even out over time, and the overall sex ratio is approximately 1:1. There are some countries which have a skewed sex ratio, but it is for reasons unrelated to the conditions presented in this problem.

There are some studies which have shown that some couples are predisposed to produce a certain gender, however, recent studies show that this is inconclusive.

If this were a real-life situation, then as long as "transmission distortion" were a sufficiently rare condition, then it would not affect the ratio much.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

I think you’re missing the point of the problem. It is purely mathematical, not a real-world issue.

Sheena Haytack - 3 years, 2 months ago

This is completely wrong! Women live substantially longer than men. Therefore, men will always be in the minority.

Christopher Russell - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Now that we've added the assumption that male and female births are equally likely, we'll also need the assumption that life expectancy is the same for both.

This was a simplifying assumption. In reality, male births are slightly more likely than female births, and these differences tend to even out over time (because of higher male mortality), so that the overall ratio is 1:1.

Andrew Hayes Staff - 3 years, 2 months ago

I think the answer will vary. Coz if I take 4 couples for example, then there can be a case were the first child born is a girl,so corresponding to that case, the no. of males fall.Whereas on the other hand if the first child is a boy then another guy and then a girl or may be twin boys and then a girl,in which case the no. of girls fall low!!!So I feel both the answer must be permitted.But having twins or triplets cannot apply to every family in which case the highest probability no. of having a girl child is 1,so how can 1:1 apply when this resembles the first case!!!!

erica phillips - 3 years, 2 months ago

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You're looking at four scenarios, but the problem requires you to look at an infinite population, over multiple generations. Once you're looking at an infinite number of couples having children, the ratio is necessarily close to 1:1.

Let's look at a larger population, 100 couples: 50 couples will have a girl, 50 will have a boy. Ratio: 50:50 = 1:1 Of the couples still having children, 25 girls, 25 boys. Ratio: 75:75 = 1:1 Of the couples still having children, 13 girls, 12 boys (can't have a 0.5 kid). Ratio: 88:87 = 1:1 (not a significant difference) Of the couples still having children, 6 girls, 6 boys. Ratio: 94:93 = 1:1. Of the couples still having children, 3 girls, 3 boys. Ratio: 97:96 = 1:1. Of the couples still having children, 1 girl, 2 boys (I decided to give the 0.5 kid back to the boys). Ratio: 98:98 = 1:1. Of the couples still having children, 1 girl, 1 boy. Ratio: 99:99 = 1:1. The final couple could end up with a girl, 100:99, or a boy, 99:100, and then a girl 100:100, or another boy 99:101, but even if that family has 15 boys, which is highly unlikely, the most likely numbers are the 100:99 or 99:100.

Extrapolate that group of 100 across an entire population, and you'll see that every 100-couple group will have a ratio near 1:1. There may be some outliers, but even if an entire group had only girls, or an entire group kept producing boys until they keeled over, the odds of those occuring are infinitesimal, and the aggregate of the population would bring the ratio to 1:1.

Brian Egedy - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Thanks for the clarification!!!!

erica phillips - 3 years, 2 months ago

I completely agree with your answer. It’s interesting to note that you actually can place conditions which change the ratio - for example “you must continue having children until the number of sons you have is strictly greater than the number of daughters” (which, with a 50-50 chance, is guaranteed to happen eventually).

James Hall - 3 years ago
Blake Hutchings
Mar 20, 2018

This is not a mathematical proof, but here is a simple step by step breakdown of this problem that should be more easily accessible to those unfamiliar with mathematical notation.

Imagine you have 1,000,000 couples, all of which have a child.

Assuming that the chances of having a boy or a girl are even (an assumption that really should have been made explicit in the original question) then after all 1,000,000 couples have had their first child, there will be 500,000 girls and 500,000 boys.

The 500,000 couples that had a girl will now stop having children, while the 500,000 that had boys will now try again.

The 500,000 couples trying again will then have, between them, approximately 250,000 girls and 250,000 boys. Add these to the children from the first generation and you now have 750,000 girls and 750,000 boys.

The remaining 250,000 couples with boys now try again, and between them they have 125,000 girls and 125,000 boys. Add these to the children born already and you now have a total of 875,000 girls and 875,000 girls.

There are now 125,000 couples still trying to have a girl, so they try again. Between them, they have 62,500 girls and 62,500 boys. This now gives a total of 937,500 girls and 937,500 boys.

We can see that after every new set of children are born, the numbers still stay evenly split between the total number of boys and girls. This pattern continues without end (theoretically).

Therefore, even though some families will end up with dozens of boys before they get their first girl, the ratio of boys to girls will always remain approximately 1:1.

Nicely explained sir

Jac O - 3 years, 2 months ago

Very well done!

H Brown - 3 years, 2 months ago

Good explanation man! Thanks

Youmna Ali - 3 years, 2 months ago

Congrats on writing an explanation that's really accessible. :D

Douglas Winship - 3 years, 2 months ago

Very well explained. Clear and simple to understand.

Henry Albo - 3 years, 2 months ago

Great explanation!

Venkat Praneeth Reddy - 3 years, 2 months ago

Excellent explanatin

Maryam Bibi - 3 years, 2 months ago

Awesome explanation!!!

Thomas Deng - 3 years, 2 months ago

Did not understand this till I saw your explanation. Thank you sir.

Barry Lederman - 3 years, 2 months ago

Best explanation on here! I love how you make it so easy for us dummies to understand! :)

Avro Arrow - 3 years, 2 months ago
Steven Yuan
Mar 18, 2018

Consider a specific couple and the expected number of children of each gender they will have. Let M M be the expected number of children that are male and F F be the expected number of children that are female. The probability that the couple will have n 1 n - 1 male children followed by a female child is just 1 2 n , \dfrac{1}{2^n}, since each gender is assumed to be equally likely to occur. Therefore,

F = i = 1 1 2 n M = i = 1 n 1 2 n . \begin{aligned} F &= \sum_{i = 1}^{\infty} \dfrac{1}{2^n} \\ M &= \sum_{i = 1}^{\infty} \dfrac{n - 1}{2^n}. \end{aligned}

We can easily calculate F F to be 1 2 1 1 2 = 1. \dfrac{\frac{1}{2}}{1 - \frac{1}{2}} = 1. To find M , M, we first multiply the entire expression by 2 then subtract it from the original expression to make it easier to compute:

M = 1 4 + 2 8 + 3 16 + 2 M = 1 2 + 2 4 + 3 8 + 4 16 + 2 M M = 1 2 + ( 2 4 1 4 ) + ( 3 8 2 8 ) + ( 4 16 3 16 ) + M = 1 2 + 1 4 + 1 8 + 1 16 + M = 1 2 1 1 2 M = 1. \begin{aligned} M &= \quad \; \; \; \; \dfrac{1}{4} + \dfrac{2}{8} + \dfrac{3}{16} + \cdots \\ 2M &= \dfrac{1}{2} + \dfrac{2}{4} + \dfrac{3}{8} + \dfrac{4}{16} + \cdots \\ 2M - M &= \dfrac{1}{2} + \left ( \dfrac{2}{4} - \dfrac{1}{4} \right ) + \left ( \dfrac{3}{8} - \dfrac{2}{8} \right ) + \left ( \dfrac{4}{16} - \dfrac{3}{16} \right ) + \cdots \\ M &= \dfrac{1}{2} + \dfrac{1}{4} + \dfrac{1}{8} + \dfrac{1}{16} + \cdots \\ M &= \dfrac{\frac{1}{2}}{1 - \frac{1}{2}} \\ M &= 1. \end{aligned}

Since F = M , F = M, the expected number of children of either gender a couple will have are the same, meaning that the ratio of males to females should be approximately 1:1 after a long time.

I believe will be more girls because all couples have 1/2 chance to have a girl, thus, from every two couples one will have a girl and one will have a boy, thus the couple that had a girl will not have a boy and the couple that had a boy will have more children until they have a girl, unless all couples that had a boy first have a second boy there will be more girls than boys, because all couples that first had a girl won't have a boy and all couples that have a girl as the second child won't have another boy and these are, again, half of the couples (willing to have children) that had first a boy, now we have 3/4 of the couples having no more children and only one boy and two girls and so on, thus boys are always behind. logic?

Ricardo Martinelli - 3 years, 2 months ago

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More girls, but not significantly more girls. I actually put together a spreadsheet. If you take it out to the point where you're including families with 8 boys and 1 girl, out of 1000 families, there will be 998 girl children and 980 boy children. Extend it out to 12 boys and 1 girld, and it's 999 to 998. You have to extend it to infinity (which is obviously impossible in real life) to get it to 1000:1000, but you can get as close as you like though the girls will always be ahead.

Kevin Parker - 3 years, 2 months ago

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"More girls but not significantly more girls" is how I saw it (more or less intuitively, without the spreadsheet). The problem I had with the Blake Hutchings solution above was the assumption that a couple who have a boy as their first child are just as likely to have a boy as their second child as to have a girl as their second child. If that's the case -- i.e., that you "wipe the slate clean" after each flip of the coin -- then I don't see how the law of large numbers could ever take effect. If the first child is a boy then of course the second one might also be a boy, but it seems to me slightly more likely that the second child will be a girl. That "slightly" is all you need to ensure that girls will outnumber boys to some extent.

Vaughan Waters - 3 years, 2 months ago

This analysis makes a simple problem complicated.

Richard Desper - 3 years, 2 months ago

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As evidenced by the comments on various solutions to this problem, some people believe that there will be significantly more of one sex than the other and cite flawed logic to back their claim. In that case, a mathematical analysis like this one can serve as a rigorous proof for those in doubt.

(Actually, when I first saw this problem, my first instinct was to calculate expected values of each gender occurring. Only when I solved it and looked at Andy's solution did I realize it was much simpler than I thought.)

Steven Yuan - 3 years, 2 months ago

I appreciate the rigor since it made it more thought-provoking (regardless of the added complexity :-) )

Kevin Flowers - 3 years, 2 months ago

If I apply to the problem the following logic, I get a different result. suppose we scan the families after long time, then according to this logic, each family can have from 1 to n boys, and the n+1 child can be either a girl or a boy. But there can not be a family where there is a girl followed by more boys. according to this analysis there are obviously more boys than girls on average. what is wrong with this argument?

Yaacov Sadeh - 3 years, 2 months ago

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While it's possible for a given couple to have 10 or more boys before having a girl, it's equally likely that 10 given couples will have a girl on their first try.

Nick O'Brien - 3 years, 2 months ago

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That's a good argument.... :)

Luis Colorado - 3 years, 2 months ago

Unfortunately you assume that the gender variety is an equally likely event, meaning that the chance of being male/female is equal. First of all, that statistically is not true. Secondly, it isn't stated in the problem. Therefore, if every couple has one male and one female the ratio should be 1:1 but if minimum one per generation couple has a "bonus" male, you would end up with infinitely more males than females after repeating the process infinitely (and no one dies). If by chance a couple gets a girl first try, then nothing changes. The total couples are still constant unless if there are more families with girls first try than the free males left from previous/same generation. Furthermore, it should be: lim┬(n≫∞)〖⁡M〗=lim┬(n≫∞)⁡〖(n-1)/2^n 〗, which is a undefined case from type: ∞/∞ , that cannot be computed in such way. Never the less for small numbers it is legit.

To sum up, this is not a critique for your solution, in fact it is very elegant and well done but I think that there is more to the problem. No bad feelings.

Sorry for the bad formulas.

Master Dalek - 3 years, 2 months ago

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the problem states you're to assume an equal chance of having a male or female child. Maybe it's been updated?

Iskander Elderson - 3 years, 2 months ago

The assumption is in the problem (like Iskander says: maybe they added this later). In general the problem is ill-defined.

  • we know nothing about the distribution of multiple births: it cannot be uniformly distributed as there is not uniform distribution on the set {1,2,3,4, … }.
  • How often a couple can give birth is not defined (eg. once and that’s it? every time iteration?) This changes the model significantly.
  • how couples are formed (within a generation, between generations, splits, repairing?) is not defined. The simplest assumption here could be: marriage only of people of same age, and EVERYONE gets married, so long as there are enough partners.

R Mathe - 3 years, 2 months ago

Btw. @Master Dalek if you scroll up to the problem and click on the [··· more] button, then Toggle LaTeX you can see (at least in the comments) examples of how to use LaTeX, to typeset maths in a nice way.

R Mathe - 3 years, 2 months ago

are you reordering the terms of a series without checking for uniform convergence?

Luis Colorado - 3 years, 2 months ago

This is missing life expectancy. Women live longer than men sooooo....

Christopher Russell - 3 years, 2 months ago

The n in the formula of M should be i

Ze Cheng - 3 years, 2 months ago

This problem is extremely poorly stated. We don’t know if unique pairing is important for child generation, if it is allow to happen across generations, how often a pair has children (1 birth per generation? multiple births per generation? 1 birth upon pairing and then no longer?). We don’t know the distribution of the mode of birth: having 1 child or twins, or triples, etc. per birth. In short, this problem is extremely sloppily stated.

R Mathe - 3 years, 2 months ago

You cannot solve this using maths, We all know of families where a couple have only boys or only girls, So in the case of a Boys only family they will continue to have Boys. Where as the Girls Only family will have only ONE. Therefor Boys will outnumber Girls. Your Genes are Not a simple maths formula.

Rodney Gillard - 3 years, 2 months ago

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‘you’ may not be able to, but one can. The only issue is, this problem is extremely poorly stated.

R Mathe - 3 years, 2 months ago
Florian Boucher
Mar 9, 2018

We will only consider couples that stopped having babies (meaning they had a girl). For a given couple, the probability to have n n children is 1 2 n \frac{1}{2^n} . So the average number of children per couple is i > 0 i 2 i \sum\limits_{i>0} \frac{i}{2^i} which is 2 2 . As each couple has exactly 1 1 girl they will in average also have 1 1 boy. This gives us the 50 % 50 % 50\%-50\% sex-ratio.

As I understand it, no couple will have two or more girls, since they stopped having children after the first girl. But there will be quite a number of couples having more than one boy - and ONE girl (namely, the "stop-signal-girl). Since there are no couples with more than one girl, but so and so many with more than one boy, it should come out to a significant male majority. Just my two cents ...

io fagor - 3 years, 2 months ago

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I am totally with u.

Arnav Paul - 3 years, 2 months ago

Indeed no couple will have more than one girl. Actually about half the couples will just have one girl and no boy. A quarter will have exactly one boy and one girl. The remaining quarter will have more boys an potentially a lot more. But these couples with a lot of boys are few compared to the rest.

Florian Boucher - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Good explanation. Thanks!

Jenny Tang - 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes, with your explanation, it does seem intuitive that we will have more males than females. And that's what I thought at first too. But one thing that explanation missed is that even though there will be no couples with more than one girl but many couples with more than one boy, there will also be no couples without ANY girls but many couples, half to be exact, without ANY boys. If we do the probability calculation (like Steven Yuan explained), we will find that the two effects are actually just right enough to "cancel" each other out, leaving us with equal probabilities of having girls and having boys. Hope this makes sense.

Jenny Tang - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Yes, I reconsidered it and now agree to your explanation.

io fagor - 3 years, 2 months ago

Why is the probability of having n children 1 2 n \frac{1}{2^{n}} ?

Do you simply assume couples have babies like a machine: regularly churning them out, until it stops? If so, then one can use the product probability n = 0 μ \prod_{n=0}^{\infty}\mu , where μ \mu is a probability distribution on the space Ω : = { m } × N { f } × N \Omega:=\{\text{m}\}\times\mathbb{N}\cup\{\text{f}\}\times\mathbb{N} . The problem is, you’re assuming μ ( { ( m , 1 ) } ) = 1 2 \mu(\{(m,1)\})=\frac{1}{2} and μ ( { ( f , 1 ) } ) = 1 2 \mu(\{(f,1)\})=\frac{1}{2} , and are excluding the non-zero-probability events of having twins, triplets, etc.

R Mathe - 3 years, 2 months ago
Jennifer Firman
Mar 21, 2018

Consider the viewpoint of the midwife in the hospital. For every mother who comes in about to have a baby, the probability of it being a girl is 50% - it's not affected by the sexes of any previous babies. Every baby being born still has a 50% chance of being a girl so the sex ratio is 1:1.

George Bougas
Mar 20, 2018

Let's take a particular couple. We can say that the birth of a girl is considered as a success, while the birth of a boy as a failure. Births are also considered as independent events. Then the number of births required to have a girl, X X , follows the geometric distibution with probablity p = 1 2 p=\frac{1}{2} . The probability distribution function is P ( X = k ) = ( 1 p ) k 1 p P(X=k)=(1-p)^{k-1}p , with mean value < X > = 1 p <X>=\frac{1}{p} . We conclude that on average, every family in this country is rejoiced to have a daughter after 2 births. Given that the first baby is a boy, after many generations the ratio will be approximately 1:1. We have assumed of course that every family abides by the same birth policy

The explanation is, for example, what @Andrew Hayes says in his post. But here I'm going to prove it practically with help of some code.

L e t NUMBERCOUPLES Big enough number Let \text{ NUMBERCOUPLES} \leftarrow \text{Big enough number}

I n i t i a l i z e male_child 0 Initialize \text{ male\_child} \leftarrow 0

I n i t i a l i z e female_child 0 Initialize \text{ female\_child} \leftarrow 0

I n i t i a l i z e i 0 Initialize \text{ i} \leftarrow 0

While i < N U M B E R C O U P L E S : \text{While } i < NUMBERCOUPLES\text{:}

—-random_birth RandomChoice(pos=[0,1], prob=[0.5,0.5]) \text{----random\_birth} \leftarrow \text{RandomChoice(pos=[0,1], prob=[0.5,0.5])}

—-if random_birth equals 0: \text{----if random\_birth equals 0:}

——–male_child++ \text{--------male\_child++}

—-if random_birth equals 1: \text{----if random\_birth equals 1:}

——–female_child++ \text{--------female\_child++}

——–i++ \text{--------i++}

A possible output with N U M B E R C O U P L E S = 1000000 NUMBERCOUPLES = 1000000 could be:

After 1000000 couples there are

Males: 997981

Females: 1000000

Ratio after 1000000 couples: 1.002

Aren't you convinced? Try it for yourself with Python here !

P.S: I've used hyphens (-) instead of spaces because the editor don't let me use more than a few \quad L a T e X LaTeX commands.

소리 헛
Mar 22, 2018

HaHa, easy. I thought about this problem before!! And I know the approximate total number. the total number is double of pregnantable(I cannot sure about the word ㅇㅅㅇ) mother. Just think that half of women pregnant girls and others are boys. Than half of women have to pregnant again and so on. It conclude that if total number of women are n, girls population is 1/2 n+1/4 n+...+1/2 *i n=n(approximate) and boys too.

Ben Muller
Mar 23, 2018

Others give much more elegant solutions but here's one using limits:

We know that every couple will have exactly one girl, so we want to know the average number of boys that each couple will have. At each birth ( n + 1 ) {(n+1)} there will be n {n} boys. Since there is a 50% chance of stopping after each birth we get the probability-weighted sum of

B = 0 1 / 2 + 1 1 / 4 + 2 1 / 8 + 3 1 / 16 + 4 1 / 32 + . . . B = 0*1/2+1*1/4+2*1/8+3*1/16+4*1/32+...

Which we can write as B = i = 0 n i 2 i + 1 = 1 2 i = 0 n i 2 i B=\sum\limits_{i=0}^n \dfrac{i}{2^{i+1}} = \dfrac{1}{2}\sum\limits_{i=0}^n \dfrac{i}{2^{i}}

Having the partial sum S n = 2 n + 1 n 1 2 n + 1 S_n = \dfrac{2^{n+1}-n-1}{2^{n+1}}

By 'many generations' we know we want the limit case, by this we are assuming an undefined number of births from each starting couple or their descendants.

Therefore the expected number of boys B = lim n 2 n + 1 n 1 2 n + 1 = 1 B=\lim_{n\to\infty} \dfrac{2^{n+1}-n-1}{2^{n+1}} = 1 for each girl

Note that this would assume it were possible for every couple to give birth to enough children to guarantee a girl however if we re-frame the question to consider each branch of the starting family trees and assuming an indefinite number of generations the equations above still describe reality.

A number of children before the first girl (including the girl) is modeled by geometric distribution . Here the probability of success (having a girl) = probability of failure (having a boy, sorry, boys) = 1 2 \frac{1}{2} = p. The expected value is 1 p \frac{1}{p} = 1 1 2 \frac{1}{\frac{1}{2}} = 2, practical meaning of this result is "we expect families to have on average two children before the first girl including the girl". Thus, on average, families will have 1 boy and 1 girl which leads to the overall 1:1 balance in the whole population.

Timothy Knudson
Mar 23, 2018

A few points: Without any math (and no multiple births) there will always be the same number of females in each generation. “If and only if” means each couple has x number of boys (x includes 0) and 1 girl: 100 couples produce x boys and 100 girls, 277,362 couples produce x boys and 277,362 girls. The number of boys, x, can be greater, less than or equal to the number of couples, but the number of girls will always be the number of couples If there are more boy births than couples(=girls) then in the next coupling there will be the same number of couples as the previous generation and extra boys- who don’t produce offspring If there are fewer boy births than couples (=girls) then there will be fewer couples in the next coupling but there will be equal numbers of boys and girls producing the next generation. This 1 girl- 1 boy for each new couple leads to a 1:1 ratio for the population at large

This of course assumes “old fashioned” coupling rules- not specifically stated in the problem. What if there are excess women and a mother dies after having a girl. Can the father remarry and have additional girls? What about SSM and surrogacy?

Liev Birman
Mar 22, 2018

One quick way to realize that 1:1 is the case is to imagine the path of a single offspring. For example, A couple has a male and then a female, then stop. The new male goes and finds a female. This couple then has a male and then a female, then stop. Each time the process repeats. Each offspring always goes and finds another opposite gender offspring. So, as the system grows large, the system "equilibrates" to 1:1. *The arrows indicate that these offspring will go and form a couple.

Thomas Donnelly
Mar 21, 2018

This can be done intuitively. Since excess females will be discarded, every generation will produce equal numbers of males and females, net of the excess.

Joaquin de Castro
Mar 21, 2018

I am particularly interested in this problem as it goes against our initial intuition, so I would like to try put it in a way that our intuition actually helps us.

Intuitively, we would assume that the couple could have multiple boys and only one girl, thinking that one girl would limit the chance of having anymore, but take note that having a girl also limits the possibility of having any more boys.

for example

B,... B,G BGBGBGBGGBGBGBGBBBBGBBGGBGGGGBGBGGB

correct me if I am wrong but I think it is the law of large numbers that states that the bold part has approximately equal number of boys and girls so technically its a loss for both genders.

( PS its not a proven solution but rather a way to get your intuition to be on your side. )

Angus Walker
Mar 21, 2018

This solution does of course assume that the probability is memoryless - that whatever a couple's previous history, the chances of a female child will always be 0.5. Imagine a situation where the overall likelihood of a female child was 0.5, but that this masked a variation in likelihoods for individual couples, with, say, some couples having only a 0.3 likelihood and others 0.7. In this situation, selecting out from future breeding those who bear a female child might make a significant difference to the overall gender balance, as the number of children a couple had would be in inverse proportion to the likelihood of those children being female. Effectively this system would be selecting for individuals and couples with a higher likelihood of having male children, which would lead to a population imbalance.

Prankush Garg
Mar 20, 2018

Suppose there are 2^n couples Then no of female children = 2^n because for every couple tha sequence ends with a female No of male children For first child every of 2^n couple have1/2 chance to have boy So we have approx 2^(n-1) boys then for second child from 2^(n-1) there is 1/2 prob to have a boy therefore 2^( n-2) more boys similarly.......... A GP is formed 2^n-1 +2^n-2...........+2+1=2^(n) -1 Therefore ratio is approx 1:1

Richard Desper
Mar 20, 2018

Half of all kids are girls, so half of all kids are girls. Presuming child gender selection here is a memoryless determination, so the Probabilty P[G] = P[B] for each kid, not matter how many older siblings are in a family, we'll still see gender equality.
The easiest way to see this? Ignore all data at child birth except for the gender of the child.

The weird thing about this nation is that we'll have some families that are extremely large with lots of boys. On the other hand, half of all families will only have one child, a girl.

Michael B
Mar 20, 2018

Assume a bug on the root of a infinite binary tree. Each left child of a node is toxic while each right child is just normal and healthy. The bug chooses repeatedly the next node ( P r ( ω left ) = P r ( ω right ) = 0.5 Pr(\omega_{\text{left}}) = Pr(\omega_{\text{right}}) = 0.5 ). If the bug enters a toxic leaf, it dies and a new bug is created at the root.

Of course stepping on toxic leafes (without any hidden thoughts) stand for getting a girl, while stepping on green leafes stand for getting a boy. Thus, the height of the tree tells us how many boys were born.

Let's say X X is a random variable telling us how far the bug has come. For example, if the bug reaches height k k with probability 1 2 k \frac{1}{2^k} (bug chooses every path with probability 0.5 0.5 ), k 1 k-1 boys were born and of course 1 1 girl. We are interested in the mean of X X , which equals to the mean of the reached height of all (infinitely many) bugs.

Obviously, X X is geometric distributed e.g. X G e o ( p = 0.5 ) X \sim Geo(p=0.5) . This is because we have a chain of bernoulli experiments (left or right with p = 0.5 p=0.5 ). By looking the mean up or calculating

E [ X ] = k = 1 P r ( X = k ) k = k = 1 1 2 k k = k = 1 j = 1 k 1 2 k = j = 1 k = j 1 2 k = j = 1 1 2 j 1 = 2 1 2 1 2 = 2 E[X] = \sum_{k=1}^\infty Pr(X=k)\cdot k = \sum^\infty_{k=1} \frac{1}{2^k} \cdot k = \sum^\infty_{k=1} \sum^k_{j=1} \frac{1}{2^k}= \sum^\infty_{j=1}\sum^\infty_{k=j}\frac{1}{2^k}= \sum^\infty_{j=1}\frac{1}{2^{j-1}} = \frac{2}{1-2^{-1}} - 2 = \boxed{2}

we get a mean of 2 2 . That is, 2 1 = 1 2-1=1 boys and 1 1 girl. Thus, the one-girl-regulation will not change the female-to-male ratio in the long run.

PS: In the calculation I used a switching property of positive sums and for the last step the convergence property of the geometric series with k = 0 a 0 q k = a 0 1 q \sum_{k=0}^\infty a_0 q^k = \frac{a_0}{1-q} .

PPS: One could also argue evolutionary. See this interesting article about Fishers principle .

Andy Briliant
Mar 20, 2018

The implicit assumption is that children can only be born to monogamous couples, and that those couples keep breeding until they get a girl, at which point they stop. If so, starting with a certain population, the first generation will have a number of children. Every couple will have one girl, while the boys can be in any number. But, even if there are many more boys than girls, a certain number of boys will remain single, and therefore they will not contribute to the process. At the next generations, the process repeats itself. The new couples start having children, they all have one girl and any number of boys. So, the number of girls controls the number of couples, while the exceedance in boys is sentenced to perennial single status.

Great way to explain it

Larry Bach - 3 years, 2 months ago
Callum Hart
Mar 20, 2018

Hence the expected number of boys for any family is the same as the number of girls. After a long time older generations that did not follow this behavior pass away. With a sufficiently large population, invoking the law of large numbers, the sex ratio will be approximately 1:1.

p.s. In reality, this question would be complicated by the slightly higher rate of male births and the differing risk of death for males and females across lifetimes (females tend to live longer).

Antonie Huang
Mar 20, 2018

The probability of having a male and female is 1:1, therefore no matter where you stop having babies. It will still be 1:1. Probability doesn't change with infinity amount of people.

I have a question to throw out. Let’s say a statistical amount of families have a boy and keep trying but for one reason or another are unable to conceive again. Therefore some families will end up with no girls. Would this change the answer?

Cory Hollingsworth - 3 years, 2 months ago

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I guess it makes sense, however that is not specified in the question, so you to assume that boy or girl is 50% 50%. But you are correct, that would change the answer.

Antonie Huang - 3 years, 2 months ago

So every woman who have a daughter as her first child will stop having children, meaning the females in this contry is fixed for all future (of maby decrees with time I gues, no children, stops after 2 boys etc) But the male population should keep incresing, if the birth rate is indeed 50 - 50

Olov Nordlund - 3 years, 2 months ago

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