Don't monte carlo this

A fair coin is tossed until it lands heads up. What is the probability that heads first appears on an odd numbered toss?

2 3 \frac 2 3 1 2 \frac 1 2 4 9 \frac 4 9 5 16 \frac {5}{16}

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9 solutions

Satyen Nabar
Apr 7, 2015

Let X X be the Probability that heads first appears on odd numbered toss. Let Y Y be the probability that heads appears first on even numbered toss.

We have Y Y = 1 X 1 - X

A) We throw heads on our first toss with probability 1 2 \dfrac{1}{2} .

B) We throw tails on our first toss with probability 1 2 \dfrac{1}{2} and now after that event, we wish to throw a heads first on any even numbered toss which is probability Y Y .

So X X = 1 2 \dfrac{1}{2} + 1 2 \dfrac{1}{2} Y Y

Substitute Y Y = 1 X 1 -X and solve...

X X = 2 3 \dfrac{2}{3}

This is a beautiful solution. I liked that you solved it using two simple equations drawn from the problem and from a probability axiom, instead of a more technically involved evaluation of an infinite sum. That you treated the infinite sum as merely one of the unknowns is very clever.

Andrei Rotenstein - 4 years, 9 months ago

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I would've preferred to write Y as {(1/2)*(1-X)} and not have the {1/2} because Y should include the probability of not rolling the heads on the first trial, not the expression for X. I think that would make your expression clearer.

Andrei Rotenstein - 4 years, 9 months ago

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You are really rotEINSTEIN. Ha ha!!!

Prayas Rautray - 3 years, 11 months ago

This is a very elegant solution. Keep up this creativity, always.

Bhuvanesh Sridharan - 4 years, 2 months ago

Absolutely BRILLIANT!!!

Prayas Rautray - 3 years, 11 months ago

How can you say x+y= 1 It need not be true

Janesh G - 3 years, 7 months ago

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The 1 refers to 100% or 1/1 which is the total sum of all possibilities. The coin only has the option to land heads up on an even flip or heads up on an odd flip with the probability of it landing heads up eventually being 100%

Robert Perron - 2 years, 9 months ago

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Yes, this probability axiom!

Sameer Kumar - 9 months ago

Your assumption says that. The next one should be compulsorily tail

Janesh G - 3 years, 7 months ago

Hi. Question: why is X = 1/2 + (1/2)*Y?

Y is by definition the probability that heads first appears on even numbered toss. And now Y is part of X which is the probability of head first appears on odd numbered toss?

The problem is about tossing the coin until we get our first heads and then stop. Agree with 1/2 probability of getting heads on first toss. We might get tails instead also with probability 1/2 in which case we need to toss again until we get heads.

Can i say the event of getting Tails and Heads (subset of Y) is part of X while the heads we get is actually on even number of tosses, not odd number? I don't know, maybe i confuse event with probability or vice versa.

Someone please help enlighten me. Thank you

Eltina Widasari Hutahaean - 1 year, 11 months ago

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Think in this way, the Podd = 1/2 + 1/8 + 1/32 .... The Peven = 1/4 + 1/16 + 1/64 ... As you can see every element of Peven is half of Podd. So Peven = 1/2 * Podd. Also Peven+Podd = 1.

TH Zhao - 1 year, 3 months ago

Hi, @Eltina Widasari Hutahaean That is because X is the probability that heads appears first on odd numbered toss, and it can't happen in one of two ways, A), and B), thus X = P(A) + P(B)

A) Heads on first toss, with a probability of 1/2

B) Tails on the first toss, and you get heads first on an even toss after that (plus the first toss, that really means an odd toss from the beginning). P(B)= 1/2*Y

Luis Viñé - 1 week, 4 days ago

So the probability is 66% to toss heads on the odds but then the same would go for tails... You see the problem here?

Youri Pellikaan - 2 months, 3 weeks ago
Otto Bretscher
Apr 20, 2015

The probablitity that heads first appears in the n t h n^{th} toss is 1 2 n \frac{1}{2^n} . For odd n n we get the geometric series 1 2 + 1 8 + 1 32 . . . + 1 2 ( 1 4 ) m + . . . = 1 2 ( 1 1 1 / 4 ) = 2 3 . \frac{1}{2}+\frac{1}{8}+\frac{1}{32}...+\frac{1}{2}(\frac{1}{4})^m+...=\frac{1}{2}(\frac{1}{1- { }1/4})=\frac{2}{3}.

So we simply add them up. Is there a sort of guarantee that the sum would never exceed 1?

Saurabh Chaturvedi - 5 years, 1 month ago

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@Saurabh Chaturvedi This is an infinite geometric series. If the common ratio of a geometric series lies between 1 and -1 then the series converges and we can calculate a partial sum.

For more info:

http://hotmath.com/hotmath_help/topics/infinite-geometric-series.html

Ryan L. - 4 years, 8 months ago

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@Ryan Lempka Thanks.

Saurabh Chaturvedi - 4 years, 8 months ago

I first thought the same thing but I discovered that if it's a fair toss then chances of heads first appearing in odd numbered toss is same as heads first appearing in the even numbered toss hence the answer should be 1/2!!

Adarsh Adi - 3 years, 2 months ago

Not true. The first flip is an odd numbered flip and gives 1/2 chance, the second flip is an even numbered one and gives a chance of 1/4, and so on. 1/2+1/8+1/32+... is not equal to 1/4+1/16+1/64+...

Kevin Shi - 2 years, 2 months ago
Matthew Tam
Apr 7, 2015

A fair coin tossed until a head appears on an odd numbered toss can happen in the following ways: H,TTH,TTTH,TTTTTTH, ... Therefore, the desired probability is P=1/2+(1/2)(1/2)(1/2)+(1/2)(1/2)(1/2)(1/2)(1/2)+...=(1/2)/(1-(1/4)= 2/3

(I apologize for not knowing how to type exponents)

The probability that it shows heads in the first throw(which is an odd throw by the way) is 1 / 2 1/2 . This leads us to the simple conclusion that the answer is strictly more than half. Only one option satisfies this criterion.

P.S: to type exponents refer following:

2^{213} appears as 2 213 2^{213} when you type:

\ ( 2^{213} \ )

Without spaces.

Raghav Vaidyanathan - 6 years, 2 months ago

(1/2)^3 works for(1/2) exponent 3

Sylvain Robitaille - 6 years, 1 month ago

X represents that the frist toss is tails (P = 1/2) + 1/2y and 1/2y represents the next launchs, that we wish be heads in an even numbered toss.

Weslley Silva - 5 years, 3 months ago
Fred Camerer
Sep 19, 2016

Of the possible answers listed, only one was more than 1/2. <cheating>

Ilya Prokin
Aug 5, 2017

A is an event that H first appears on an odd filp.

Total probability:

P ( A ) = P ( A H ) 1 / 2 + P ( A T T ) 1 / 4 + P ( A T H ) 1 / 4 = P(A) = P(A|H) \cdot 1/2 + P(A|TT) \cdot 1/4 + P(A|TH) \cdot 1/4 = = 1 1 / 2 + P ( A ) 1 / 4 + 0 1 / 4 = 1 \cdot 1/2 + P(A) \cdot 1/4 + 0 \cdot 1/4

P ( A ) = 2 / 3 P(A) = 2/3

Dave Malak
May 2, 2016

There are any number of ways to conceptualize this. I think one of the easier ways uses a simple conditioning trick. Let O O be the event that the first occurrence of a heads is observed on an odd flip, and N N be the flip number for the first head.

By conditioning we can simply see that: P ( O ) = P ( O H = 1 ) P ( H = 1 ) + P ( O H = 2 ) P ( H = 2 ) + P ( O H > 2 ) P ( H > 2 ) \mathbf{P}(O) = \mathbf{P}(O|H=1)\mathbf{P}(H=1)+\mathbf{P}(O|H=2)\mathbf{P}(H=2)+\mathbf{P}(O|H>2)\mathbf{P}(H>2) But it should be noted that if we know that H>2, then the system has probabilistically restarted. Hence P ( O H > 2 ) = P ( O ) \mathbf{P}(O|H>2) = \mathbf{P}(O) . Additionally, the only way for H>2 is to get two tails in a row, hence P ( H > 2 ) = 1 / 4 \mathbf{P}(H>2) = 1/4 . Therefore the answer reduces to:

P ( O ) = 1 2 + P ( O ) 1 4 \mathbf{P}(O) =\frac{1}{2}+\mathbf{P}(O) \frac{1}{4} . Solving we get the answer of 2/3.

The way I see it is logically equivalent but easier for me to explain to a child (my test of whether I truly understand it). Flip the coin twice. 1/2 = 2/4 times I get heads on the first flip, and 1/4 times I get tails on the first flip and heads on the second flip. So of the times I got heads, 2/3 were on the first flip. If I only got tails, flip the coin twice again. The above logic holds, so the probability stays at 2/3 no matter how often I have to keep flipping the coin.

Jane Heinze - 2 years, 11 months ago
Bostang Palaguna
Aug 16, 2020

draw the probability three to sufficient amount of branches, notice that the probabilty is the infinite sum of : 0.5 + 0.25 0.5 + ( 0.25 ) 2 0.5 + . . . 0.5 + 0.25 * 0.5 + (0.25)^2 * 0.5 + ... by using infinite geometric series, we get 2 / 3 \boxed{2/3}

Nathan Richardson
Jun 17, 2019

1 - 1/4 - 1/16 - 1/(4^3) - ... {{total probability of 1 and subtracting the probability of landing heads on 2nd, 4th, 6th, etc. turn}}

1 - ((1/4)/(1-(1/4)) {{1 - the geometric sum}}

1 - 1/3 {{since (1/4)/(3/4) = 1/3}}

2/3 {{simplifying}}

Sanad Kadu
Apr 16, 2018

Using Bayes Theorem, P ( O d d T u r n H e a d ) = P ( h e a d o d d t u r n ) p ( o d d t u r n ) / P ( h e a d ) P(Odd Turn|Head)=P(head|odd turn)*p(odd turn)/P(head)

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