Sizing Snowmen (Snowy Shenanigans II)

Algebra Level 1

Fraser, Georgina, and Owen are each trying to build the tallest snowman.

  • Fraser: "Fewer snow spheres should be taller. I will stack 2 spheres of equal radii."
  • Georgina: "I disagree, I think more snow spheres will be taller. I will stack 10 spheres of equal radii."
  • Owen : "It doesn't matter how many spheres you make. I'll make 6 spheres of equal radii and all three of our snowmen will be the same height."

Who is correct?

If they all have the same volume of snow, which snowman is tallest? If they all have the same volume of snow, which snowman is tallest?

Details and Assumptions:

  • Each child has the same volume of snow.
  • Each sphere is perfectly spherical, and is tangential to the spheres above and below it. The bottom spheres sit on level ground.
  • Assume that each child can stack the spheres so that they will not topple or collapse under the weight of the spheres above.
Fraser Georgina Owen

This section requires Javascript.
You are seeing this because something didn't load right. We suggest you, (a) try refreshing the page, (b) enabling javascript if it is disabled on your browser and, finally, (c) loading the non-javascript version of this page . We're sorry about the hassle.

26 solutions

Siva Budaraju
Mar 12, 2018

When you are using bigger snowballs, more volume gets lost toward the sides.

This image shows how a lot of volume is lost to the sides, and that volume could be used to build more small snowballs higher up.

That is an interesting intuition. Can we formalize this?

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 3 months ago

Log in to reply

The snow required (volume) grows with the third power of r, the resulting length grows linear with 2r. In order to max length it is clear more balls is better than bigger balls.

Geert Nijs - 3 years, 3 months ago

Take Frasier's snowman. Now carve out 8 or 6 vertically stacked snowballs, enclosed in the original snowballs, to obtain a new snowman. It's of the same height but uses less snow.

Ròtêm Assouline - 3 years, 2 months ago

There, I posted an image. Does that clear it up a little more?

Siva Budaraju - 3 years, 2 months ago

Im talking 2d right now but it can be taking 3d quite easily: Let V be the given volume of the snow and n be the amount of balls. Then A=V/n is the area of snow per ball.

Each ball has area A=pi*r^2, so r=sqr(A/pi)

And the height of the whole construction is 2r*n for obvious reasons.

Putting everything together gives us Height=sqr(V/pi) *n/sqr(n) First part is constant, so doesnt matter. Second parr gets bigger when n gets bigger. Therefor height gets bigger when n gets bigger.

Therefor many smaller balls are bettern than few big ones.

This was the 2d explanation. But the 3d one is easily doable as well.

Denis Schüle - 3 years, 2 months ago

This is not a mathemathical explanation...pffff

Marcelo Torres - 3 years, 2 months ago

Love it! Understanding not calculation.

Ivan Treagus - 3 years, 2 months ago

Log in to reply

Thanks! I actually didn't understand @David Vreken 's solution much, so I decided to post this one, which requires just intuition.

Siva Budaraju - 3 years, 2 months ago

Yes because in sphere mass volume is equally distributed to all directions from its center point. If larger spheres are used you are bound to lose more mass volume other directions than height when radius is increased as volume needed for larger radius spheres grow faster than radius.

Jarkko Hietala - 3 years, 2 months ago
David Vreken
Mar 3, 2018

Relevant wiki: Volume of a Sphere

Let n n be the number of equally sized spheres in a snowman. The volume of one sphere is V = 4 3 π r 3 V = \frac{4}{3}\pi r^3 , so the volume distributed over n n spheres would be V n = 4 3 π r 3 \frac{V}{n} = \frac{4}{3}\pi r^3 , which means each sphere would have a radius of r = 3 V 4 n π 3 r = \sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{4n\pi}} and a height of h = 2 r = 2 3 V 4 n π 3 h = 2r = 2\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{4n\pi}} . The total height T T of all the spheres stacked together would then be T = n h T = nh or T = 2 n 3 V 4 n π 3 T = 2n\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{4n\pi}} . So when the volume V V is constant, then T = k n 2 3 T = kn^{\frac{2}{3}} for some constant k > 0 k > 0 , so as n n increases, T T increases.

In other words, if every child starts with the same amount of snow and makes snowmen with equally sized spheres, then the tallest snowman will be the one made with the most amount of spheres. Since Georgina is making her snowman with the most amount of spheres, her snowman will be the tallest.

Good solution

Stephen Mellor - 3 years, 3 months ago

The thing is you have to assume the amount of snow the children have to work with because nowhere in the problem dose it state that. Theoretically they all could be the same height or Fraser's be the tallest etc.

June Renolds - 3 years, 3 months ago

Log in to reply

In the details and assumptions, it says that each child has the same volume of snow.

David Vreken - 3 years, 3 months ago

I do not really get the step where you convert your complicated T formula to T = kn^2/3. Would you mind explaining how exactly you have done this?

Backkom PL - 3 years, 3 months ago

Log in to reply

Rearranging T = 2 n 3 V 4 n π 3 T = 2n\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{4n\pi}} we get T = 2 3 V 4 π 3 n n 3 T = 2\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{4\pi}}\frac{n}{\sqrt[3]{n}} or T = 2 3 V 4 π 3 n 2 3 T = 2\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{4\pi}}n^{\frac{2}{3}} . Letting k = 2 3 V 4 π 3 k = 2\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{4\pi}} (since V V and π \pi are constant) and substituting gives T = k n 2 3 T = kn^{\frac{2}{3}} .

David Vreken - 3 years, 3 months ago

don't the snowman fall?

moni mo - 3 years, 3 months ago

Log in to reply

"Assume that each child can stack the spheres so that they will not topple"

David Vreken - 3 years, 3 months ago

Read the details and assumptions before asking questions, as this is covered there

Stephen Mellor - 3 years, 3 months ago

complex solutions to very easy problems

Martin Gala - 3 years, 3 months ago

Log in to reply

I'd love to see an elegant solution. Do you have one?

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 3 months ago

Log in to reply

Height is proportional to number * radius while volume is proportional to number * radius^3 . The fairly obvious conclusion is that small r and high n wins. I don't know if that's your idea of elegant, but that's my simple but still mathematically correct way of thinking about it as an engineer. I don't have time to faff around like others have.

Michael Groszek - 3 years, 3 months ago

For a given volume the object with the smallest surface area is the sphere => for a given volume 2 spheres have a greater surface area than 1 sphere => for a given volume the sum of the radiuses of 2 spheres is grater than the radius of 1 sphere => let us iterate the reasoning => for a given volume the greater is the number of the spheres, the greater is the sum of the radiuses => when the centers of the spheres are aligned we have the maximum lenght. When we need an answer, especially as soon as possible, no matter if the procedure is not too elegant

Martin Gala - 3 years, 2 months ago

I simplified this using circles but that was my mistake. If you use circles you can only put 2 small circles in a big circle, so 4 small in 2 big ones. If you put five you need more snow and so on.

In spheres you can only put 3 small spheres inside the big one, so 6 small spheres will be the same as 2 big ones. Solution will be at least 7 smaller spheres and so on. So Georgina is correct.

mercadder mercadder - 3 years, 3 months ago

I don't understand this at all!

Lucky Lambdin - 3 years, 3 months ago

This solution is specific to spheres. Suppose instead of a sphere, there was some other 3-D "shape". Will the same result still hold?

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 3 months ago

Log in to reply

It at least does for cubes, since T = V 3 n 2 3 = k n 2 3 T = \sqrt[3]{V}n^{\frac{2}{3}} = kn^{\frac{2}{3}} as well. It may be something worth investigating!

David Vreken - 3 years, 3 months ago

It should always be the cube law, meaning that for each doubling in diameter, 8× the volume. Same should go with any 3d shape. If someone stacks spheres (or cubes) 10× the diameter than the other, using the same amount of material, the smaller would stack up to 1,000 units high, the other, just 10 units high (or multiples thereof).

Robert Bernal - 3 years, 2 months ago

Log in to reply

Yes, this is correct, although there might be some cases for where it doesn't, when the shapes are stacked in a different orientation?? (It is obvious with spheres how to stack them, but the height would change depending on if you stacked rugby balls on their side or end)

Stephen Mellor - 3 years, 2 months ago

I would appreciate if you could detail the calculation a bit more. Thank you.

Audrey Tessier - 3 years, 3 months ago

damn I forgot about the 4/3

Gabriela de Araújo - 3 years, 2 months ago

Log in to reply

It doesn't matter. It only matters that the volume is proportional to r^3. And therefore the height of the balls of snow is proportional to n^(2/3) where n is or course the number of balls of snow. Regards, David

David Fairer - 3 years, 2 months ago

Good one!!

Pradeep Pradhan - 3 years, 2 months ago

I like this!

Prometheus 800 - 3 years, 2 months ago

If V is the total Volume available, H the total height of the snowman and n the number of spheres, then: radii of each sphere => r = H / (2 * n), volume of each sphere => v = pi / 3 * (H / (2 * n))^3, total volume to n spheres V1 = n * (pi / 3 * (H / (2 * n))^3) and V >= V1

V >= n * (pi / 3 * (H / (2 * n))^3) => V >= n * (pi / 3 * (H^3 / (24 * n^3))) => V >= pi * H^3 / 24 * n^2 => H^3 <= 24 * n^2 * V / pi => H <= (24 * n^2 * V / pi) ^(1/3)

H depends only of n because V is constant, as n grows then H grows. The anwser is H = 10.

Marcelo Torres - 3 years, 2 months ago
Samir Patel
Mar 12, 2018

Take a ball of plasticine, roll in into a long thin line, cut the line into many small sections, roll these into small balls, rest them end to end. This is longer than width of the original ball, using the same volume. Same argument applies to this problem

Common sense tells me Georgina is wrong. This may work in theory but not in the real world. Her snowman would be 'reclining' (fallen over on the ground.) That would make it the longest snowman, but surely not the tallest . . .

barbara jackson - 3 years, 3 months ago

Log in to reply

Read the assumptions. The snowman will not topple.

Zain Majumder - 3 years, 2 months ago

Log in to reply

I took into account that smaller snowballs would melt faster so the snowman with ten spheres would shrink very fast.

Barbara Rachko - 3 years, 2 months ago

Incorrect answer , owen is correct, for same H n and radii act n each other in reverse you do get the same to get the same height .

The solution shown is double dutch and too complicated.

Paolo Giammarco - 3 years, 2 months ago
Marcel Sévigny
Mar 13, 2018

Let's assume that every child has a certain volume of snow V V and that the height of their respective snowman is denoted h h . Let's analyze each case :

Fraser :

The total volum of snow is shared between 2 spheres of equal radius r F r_{F} , that we can obtain because we know that V = 2 V s p h e r e V = 2 \cdot V_{sphere} :

r F = 3 V 8 π 3 r_{F} = \sqrt[3]{\frac{3 V}{8 \pi}}

Georgina :

The total volum of snow is shared between 10 spheres of equal radius r G r_{G} , that we can obtain because we know that V = 10 V s p h e r e V = 10 \cdot V_{sphere} :

r G = 3 V 40 π 3 r_{G} = \sqrt[3]{\frac{3 V}{40 \pi}}

Owen :

The total volum of snow is shared between 6 spheres of equal radius r O r_{O} , that we can obtain because we know that V = 6 V s p h e r e V = 6 \cdot V_{sphere} :

r O = 3 V 24 π 3 r_{O} = \sqrt[3]{\frac{3 V}{24 \pi}}

At this point, the height of the snowman can be defined as follows: h = n r h = n r where n n represents the number of spheres composing the snowman, and r r the radius of each sphere in one specific case. The next table resume every information for every case :

Volume Radius Height
Fraser V = 2 4 3 π r F 3 V=2 \cdot \frac{4}{3} \pi r_F^3 r F = 3 V 8 π 3 r_{F}=\sqrt[3]{\frac{3 V}{8 \pi}} h = 3 V π 3 h=\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{\pi}}
Georgina V = 10 4 3 π r 3 V=10 \cdot \frac{4}{3} \pi r^3 r G = 3 V 40 π 3 r_{G}=\sqrt[3]{\frac{3 V}{40 \pi}} h = 75 V π 3 h=\sqrt[3]{\frac{75V}{\pi}}
Owen V = 6 4 3 π r 3 V=6 \cdot \frac{4}{3} \pi r^3 r O = 3 V 24 π 3 r_{O}=\sqrt[3]{\frac{3 V}{24 \pi}} h = 9 V π 3 h=\sqrt[3]{\frac{9V}{\pi}}

Where we can easily conclude that ​Georgina's snowman is the highest.

Let's suppose for the sake contradiction, that the number of spheres do not affect the height of the stack.

In that case, what happens in the limiting case? In the limiting case, we have concentrated the entire volume of snow into a really long stack. This contradicts our assumption.

In fact, studying the limiting case above immediately yields that increasing the number of balls increase the height

Oslier Cruz
Mar 13, 2018

This problem follows the same principle as the Dirac delta function. Maintaining the same area (in this case volume) it is possible to get higher as it gets thinner.

Mel Maron
Mar 15, 2018

You want to maximize R / V = R / [(4/3) pi R^3]. This is inversely proportional to R^2, hence largest when R is smallest.

Simple and elegant. Best answer.

Jean Anglade - 3 years, 2 months ago
Jean Anglade
Mar 15, 2018

The question is the same as asking for a certain height which solution uses the less snow.

V = 4/3 pi (R/x)^3*x where x is the number of balls

V = 4/3 pi R^3*1/x^2

V = constant/x^2

=> for the same height, the smaller balls you do the less volume you use = the smaller the balls are the higher you get with the same volume of snow.

Let V V be the snow's volume, r r be each snowball's radius, h h be the height of the snow person, and n n be the number of snowballs used.

4 3 π r 3 n = V \frac {4}{3} \pi r^{3} n = V

2 r n = h 2rn = h

Therefore,

r = h 2 n r = \frac {h}{2n}

which means

4 3 π ( h 2 n ) 3 n = V \frac {4}{3} \pi (\frac{h}{2n})^{3} n = V

Thus,

4 3 π h 3 8 n 3 n = V \frac {4}{3} \pi \frac {h^{3}}{8n^{3}}n = V

and

π 6 h 3 n 2 = V \frac {\pi}{6} \frac {h^{3}}{n^{2}} = V

This means

h 3 = 6 V n 2 π h^{3} = \frac {6Vn^{2}}{\pi}

and

h = 6 V n 3 π 3 h = \sqrt[3]{\frac{6Vn^{3}}{\pi}}

which can be written as

h = 6 V π 3 n 2 3 h = \sqrt[3]{\frac{6V}{\pi}} \sqrt[3]{n^{2}}

Because 6 V π 3 \sqrt[3]{\frac {6V}{\pi}} is constant, we know that h h is directly proportional to n 2 3 \sqrt[3]{n^{2}} . Since this number is always positive, Georgina is correct.

I think your original formula for V should have n on the left side

Stephen Mellor - 3 years, 2 months ago

Log in to reply

Wait yes, you're right. I'm gonna go back and recalculate.

Avery Bentley Sollmann - 3 years, 2 months ago
Florence Glaubius
Mar 14, 2018

This volume problem can be modeled with cubes. The greater the side of each cube, the more snow will be used for width and depth. To maximize the height, the width and depth need to be minimized. Of course, in the real world, the narrow one will have stability issues and if the environment is not cold enough it will also melt faster.

Victor Dumbrava
Mar 13, 2018

Let's denote the heights of the three snowmen h 1 , h 2 h_1,\:h_2 and h 3 h_3 . One can deduce that h n = 2 n r n h_n=2nr_n , where r n r_n is the radius of the spheres of the n t h n^{th} snowman. Additionally, the volume of the n t h n^{th} sphere is given by V n = 4 3 π r n 3 V_n=\frac{4}{3}\pi r_n^3 . This implies that r n = V n 4 π 3 3 = 3 V n 4 π 3 r_n=\sqrt[3]{\frac{V_n}{\frac{4\pi}{3}}}=\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V_n}{4\pi}} . Additionally, V n = V n V_n=\frac{V}{n} , whereas V V is the volume each child receives, so r n = 3 V 4 n π 3 r_n=\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{4n\pi}} . The total height is therefore:

h n = 2 n 3 V 4 n π 3 h_n=2n\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{4n\pi}}

Applying this formula for all our cases (though this is not strictly necessary as the cube root is a slow-growing function compared to the double):

h 1 = 4 3 V 8 π 3 = 2 3 V π 3 , h 2 = 20 3 V 40 π 3 , h 3 = 6 V π 3 h_1=4\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{8\pi}}=2\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{\pi}}, \:\:\:h_2=20\sqrt[3]{\frac{3V}{40\pi}}, \:\:\:h_3=6\sqrt[3]{\frac{V}{\pi}}

Cubing each height, we get:

h 2 3 600 V π > h 3 3 216 V π > h 1 3 24 V π \underbrace{h_2^3}_{600\frac{V}{\pi}}>\underbrace{h_3^3}_{216\frac{V}{\pi}}>\underbrace{h_1^3}_{24\frac{V}{\pi}}

And therefore the tallest tower is the second one. In conclusion, having more spheres is equivalent to building a taller snowman.

Ioannis Bazianas
Mar 13, 2018

If the size of the ball is irrelevant, and all balls are the same height, then the column of 10 snowballs will be encapsulated entirely by the snowman made of two snowballs. But that means the snowman of two snowballs has more volume, which is not allowed. As that is not allowed, then the difference in volume must be converted to more balls, and as such, the more balls, the higher.

FFname FFnames
Mar 12, 2018

I thought about isoperimetric theorem, that you have, in this case, the same volume (the same amount of snow), so with less radio the perimeter will be bigger

Jeremy Galvagni
Mar 12, 2018

If you fell into a sausage machine you might make a long sausage, but if you fell in a spaghetti machine you’d make a really long noodle.

Steven Retutal
Mar 18, 2018

You could answer this problem in two ways, but this is the solution that I found the simplest:

The square-cube law states that if the height of a cube is increased by 10, the surface area is increased by 100, and the volume is increased by 1000.

Using this concept we can ask this other question:

Which would have less volume? A cube with height 50 cm? Or 10 cubes with height 5 cm?

FOR CUBE WITH HEIGHT 50 CM: It is equal to a 5cm high cube with it's height multiplied by 10 meaning: Height=50 cm Surface area=15000 cm² Volume=125000 cm³

FOR 10 CUBES WITH HEIGHT 5 CM: A cube with height 5 cm has a surface area of 150 cm², and a volume of 125 cm³ If there are 10 of them then the volume would be: 10×125 cm³ = 1250 cm³

Therefore 10 cubes with 5 cm height have less volume than a a cube with 50 cm height.

Tying this with the snowman question, we can make this analysis:

You can make more of a smaller 3 dimensional object like a cube or sphere( or any 3d object affected by this law) than of a large 3d object, given a set volume.

Abhijit Mitra
Mar 18, 2018

The total volume of snow, allotted to each one of the three, is a given (constant): V t o t V_{tot} . If somebody decides to make 'N' number of snowballs of diameter 'D', N times the volume of each snowball should be the whole volume V t o t V_{tot} : V t o t = N 8 π D 3 V_{tot} = \frac{N}{8} \pi D^3 . The game, however, is to maximise your aggregated height 'H', which is the number of snowballs 'N' times the diameter 'D' of each ball : H = N × D H = N \times D . From the earlier equation (on the constraint of the total volume), H turns out to be, H = N D = ( 8 V t o t π ) 1 3 N 2 3 H=ND = {\bigg( \frac{8 V_{tot}}{\pi} \bigg)}^{\frac{1}{3}} N^{\frac{2}{3}} . So, H N 2 3 H \propto N^{\frac{2}{3}} . More number of snowballs; greater the height. And hence, Georgina is correct!

Clay Creasy
Mar 17, 2018

We could rearrange the volume of a sphere equation and work backwards, but it works to prove that if you end up with the same total height, the combined radii would be the same. For instance, if you envision that each person wanted to build a tower 60 inches tall, Fraser would make 2 spheres with a radius of 15 inches each, Georgina would make 10 spheres with a radius of 3 inches each, and Owen would make 6 with a radius of 5 inches each. When plugging these values in and finding the total volumes needed, we get cubic inches of snow of 9000pi, 360pi and 1000pi respectively. Thus it takes way more snow to make the same size tower with 2 or 6 than it does 10 spheres.

Yash Ghaghada
Mar 17, 2018

You can think of this as concentrating the volume towards its length only, means more will be the radius more volume wastage.

Also if we just think of length then ideally we can create infinite length

Mainak Chaudhuri
Mar 17, 2018

As the mass and density of the snow remains constant and is isotropic, hence the volume is directly proportional to its size of the snow sphere . Also mass is directly proportional to the volume. So Fraser's snow man will have the greatest chance of collapsing, then of Owen. However as the size of snowballs of Georgina is smallest, the effective weight needed to collapse is very less. Hence this snowman can withstand the maximum compression. Also it will be better if the lower snowballs have a little bigger volume than the top.

Sophia Cai
Mar 16, 2018

If you take out from a sphere the shape and size of two spheres with half the radius, then there will be a lot of leftover snow. Therefore, you need less volume for the same height using smaller spheres. That means you have leftover volume, which can be made into new snowballs to increase height.

Erik Shaw
Mar 15, 2018

The number of spheres with a radius R R in a snowman with fixed volume V V is just V 4 3 π R 3 \frac{V}{\frac{4}{3}\pi R^3} and so the height is the height of each sphere 2 R 2R times this number of spheres h = V 2 3 π R 2 \Rightarrow h = \frac{V}{\frac{2}{3}\pi R^2} . So, we can see that the larger each sphere the shorter the snowman, which means Georgina is correct.

Qi Huan Tan
Mar 14, 2018

Suppose we have total amount of snow of volume k k and is distributed among n n balls, each of radius r r . Then, we must have 4 3 n π r 3 = k \frac{4}{3}n\pi r^3=k . Thus, since the total height of the snowman is h = 2 n r h=2nr , we have h = 3 k 2 π r 2 h=\frac{3k}{2\pi r^2} . The snowman is higher if the radii of the balls are smaller, which holds if there are more balls.

Basudeb Jena
Mar 14, 2018

In this case we are only interested in increasing the height of the snow man as much as we can with the help of spheres having only a limited amount of snow so the less the ready of the snow the less the snow is wasted which doesn't contribute to increase the height of the snow so the less the radius of the spheres the more would be contributed to only increasing the height of the ☃️ but you have to done it very fast otherwise the ice will melt 😁

https://brilliant.org/problems/save-the-snow/?ref_id=1472683 for another problem in my set which talks about this ;)

Stephen Mellor - 3 years, 2 months ago
Robert Bernal
Mar 13, 2018

Imagine one sphere as 2 units in diameter, the other as 1. The volume of a sphere with twice the diameter contains the cube, or 8× the volume as a sphere with 1× the diameter. Since each child has the same amount of snow to work with, in this example, the smaller spheres would stack up 4× higher. Another mental visualization of this cube law is with 1" cubes. 8 of them will form a 2" cube.

Anthony Lamanna
Mar 13, 2018

Fun extra question: What would the ratio of the heights of these three snowmen be?

In this particular case: 6 : 8.43 : 2.88.

Victor Dumbrava - 3 years, 3 months ago
Cliff McDonald
Mar 12, 2018

Volume of a cube is proportional to the cube of the radius. If you double the radius of the cube, the volume increases by a factor of 8. Therefore, to maximize radius given a constant volume, fewer cubes are better than more cubes. For example, if you have 32*pi/3 cubic meters of snow, this would allow one sphere with a radius of 2, or 8 spheres with a radius of 1.

0 pending reports

×

Problem Loading...

Note Loading...

Set Loading...