In the event that machines take over the world and you don't have access to a calculator, can you tell which one is greater,
3 1 1 7 or 1 7 3 1 ?
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Hi, we can also think of it this way, take ln both sides then 17 ln(31) and 31 ln(17) we know ln scales values down and ln(31) and ln(17) would be very close hence 31 and 17 would make the impact and thus 17^31 would be greater.... What say people?
IF
{ 31 }^17 = { 17 }^31...........(1)
Raise the power on both sides by 1/31
THEN,
sqrt { 31 } = 17 (17/31 is approximately equal to 0.5)
This is absurd ....
actually sqrt { 31 } is certainly < 17
So we should substitute ' < ' symbol instead '='
Hence eqn (1) becomes
{31}^17 <{17}^31
that is 17^{ 31 } > 31{ 17 }
@Sankarshaṇ Joshi very simple solution dude. this should receive more upvotes
Frankly I did this just by instinct. I always do maths by instinct. I know that exponentiation raises the value very fast. The more power to which you raise the number the bigger it becomes. Also I simply compared the numbers 17 and 31 and their relative magnitudes and saw that raising 17 to the power of 31 must certainly yield a bigger number raising 31 to the power of 17.
I solved it by instinct too. It's startling how intelligent a human subconscious is.
Same here Sir
Take the natural logarithm of both sides, to get 17 log(31) & 31 log(17). Since logarithm is a monotonically increasing function, the relationship (greater, lesser or equal) between the two sides is preserved in the transformation. Now, cross-multiply to get 1 7 l o g 1 7 & 3 1 l o g 3 1 .
Consider the function x l o g x . Differentiating this gives x 2 1 − l o g ( x ) , which is strictly negative for all x>e (Denominator is a square and always positive, numerator is negative since log(x)>1 for all x>e). This means that the function is monotonically decreasing, i.e., 1 7 l o g 1 7 > 3 1 l o g 3 1 . Thus, 17 log(31)<31 log(17) and so, 1 7 3 1 > 3 1 1 7 .
the esiest way ;)
@Rohit Gupta cool way to solve !!
17^31 obviously as it can be written as (1.7 10)^31 so it means 1.7^31 10^31..... nd 31^17 can be written as (3.1 10)^17 therefore = 3.1^17 10^17 now as 10^31>10^17 therefore mutually it is directly stated 17^31> 31^17 ....
As 3.1>1.7 bt nos of zeroes on side 17^31 will always greater than 17^31
16^30 [ > ] 32^17....2^120 [ > ] 2^85
31/17=1.8 1.8*5=9 so for every 9 powers of 17 we have 5 powers of 31 thus for 27 powers of 17 we have 15 powers of 31 now we are left with 31^2=900 and 17^4 ie way past 900 so 17^31 is greater.
cool and nice techniques!!
Brilliant !!
nicely explained
amazing !
see the example 2^8 and 8^2 ,3^9 and 9^3 simlary this problem
Very cool trick............
The Coolest and the easiest way to solved it ! Thumbs up
your solution is amazing :D
@Rohit Gupta , brilliant solution (lends credibility to the authors that decided to name the website after such, haha)! I really liked this approach with the whole inequality idea. Much better than some of the other answers I've seen here.
wow..i did not think this way.. bravo..
but i got the correct answer..im just wild guessing..but also using my mathematical skills. heheehe :)
one can also use logarithm to solbe this problem.
it is easy to do like that way : 2 raise to 4 and 4 raise to 2 can all tell me which is greater ???? but obviously 2 raise to 4 is greater which is resemble to given question!!!
nice explaination..
i m not a math genius or something but just used the logic that if u raise a lower no. with a higher power than a higher no. with a lower power then the lower no. with the higher power has to be a bigger no. because of the chance of it getting multiplied for a larger no. of time.........since 2/\6 >6/\2.therefore 17/\31>31/\17.....hope this logic is right....;P
take a simple and equivalent example: 2^11 or 11^2 ? Answer lies therein. Smaller^larger no. > larger^smaller no.
For the number closer to e , x x 1 is greater. For proof, check the function f ( x ) = x x 1 . It achieves it's maximum at x = e . This gives 1 7 1 7 > 3 1 3 1 . Result follows.
Great solution! People need to know this fact!
can i use log......if we do it...and a bit of guess work..what is the answer....
No doubt ur concept was right but without calculator ur process is not possible
Why? I did it without calculator. e = 2 . 7 4 ⋯ < 1 7 < 3 1 . Hence the function is higher for 1 7 . Note that ( x x 1 ) ′ < 0 for x ∈ ( e , ∞ )
17>16 which is 2^4 therefore 17^31>2^(431)>2^124 31<32 which is 2^5 therefore 31^17<2^(517)<2^85 Hence 31^17 is the answer
i agree with this
i just picked smaller numbers like 2^5 and 5^2 ,reasoned out the circumstances which makes the first instance(2^5) greater,and applied it to the question. it worked!!
......a very basic, time-saving way of looking at the seemingly complex question.
Take log values.
Clearly 31log17>17log31
is this correct method be apply? take log both side will affect the value of both side too right?
logarithmic function is an strictly increasing function.. hence there is nothing wrong in taking log
It's a little clearer if you use base-2 logarithms: then you can get "good enough" approximations to tell which product is larger.
We know that the 17^31 is of the order 10^31. 3^17is of the order 10^17 and we have almost a factor of 2 (31/17) to worry about. 2^31 is of the order 10^9.
Usually the smaller number to the power of a bigger number is greater than the bigger number to the power of a smaller number. ex: 3 to the power of 2 and 2 to the power of 3 ( 2 to the power of 3 is greater)
Using small number for instace take:
3^2 and 2^3, we realize that 3^2 = 9 and 2^3 = 8
therefore this implies that 31^17 > 17^31
this is the true power of exponential functions, small no. with a higher power grows faster than a large number with a smaller power. I know this logic and got the answer without even thinking, as difference between 31 and 17 is large.....
17^31= 17^(17+14) = (17^17).(17^14) = (17^17).(14+3)^14 = (17^17).(14^14).[1+(3/14)]^14 = (17^17).(14^14).(approx 5/4)^14 and 31^17 = (17+14)^17 = (17^17).[1+(14/17)]^17 = (17^17). (approx 2)^17
Clearly the term 14^14 will take a major lead over 2^17 and hence 17^31 will be greater.
Let take y=17^31 and y'=31^17 Now just take log both side to get logy=31log17 and logy'=17log31 Now you can just use the log properties and approximation to know that whose bigger? logy or logy' ? you will just get an ans.. QED
it's simple calculate its ten power using logarthims i.e17^31 has a ten power 38 whereas 31^17 has ten power 25
we know 17^31 > 16^31=2^124 and 31^17< 32^17= 2^85 seeing above we got 17^31>31^17
Take the natural logarithm of both sides, to get 17 log(31) & 31 log(17). Since logarithm is a monotonically increasing function, the relationship (greater, lesser or equal) between the two sides is preserved in the transformation. Now, cross-multiply to get 1 7 l o g 1 7 & 3 1 l o g 3 1 .
Consider the function x l o g x . Differentiating this gives x 2 1 − l o g ( x ) , which is strictly negative for all x>e (Denominator is a square and always positive, numerator is negative since log(x)>1 for all x>e). This means that the function is monotonically decreasing, i.e., 1 7 l o g 1 7 > 3 1 l o g 3 1 . Thus, 17 log(31)<31 log(17) and so, 1 7 3 1 > 3 1 1 7 .
assume function x^1/x and differentiate it to get where the function is increasing or decreasing. Now you can know the relation between 17^1/17 and 31^1/31 which is 17^1/17> 31^1/31. now raise both sides to 17*31. Since the numbers are greater than 1, inequality holds :)
consider 31^17. taking log will give 17log31 now, 17log31< 17log34 17log34= 34log17 34log17 < 31log17..... hence 17log31 < 31log17 therefore 31^17 < 17^31
17^31 obviously17^31 obviously as it can be written as (1.7 ×10)^31 so it means 1.7^31× 10^31..... nd 31^17 can be written as (3.1×10)^17 therefore = 3.1^17×10^17 now as 10^31>10^17 therefore mutually it is directly stated 17^31> 31^17 ....
As 3.1>1.7 bt nos of zeroes on side 17^31 will always greater than 31^17
Dats all ....
as we know that
17=16+1 and 31=32-1
solving it correctly we will get
31^17<2^85
and 17^31>2^124
so 17^ 31 is greater
17^31 = 17 (289^15) 31^17 = 961 (31^15)
seems 17^31 being greater than 31^17.
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First, let us look for some similarities between 17 and 31 which we may be able to use to our advantage. Both numbers are just 1 away from a power of 2:
1 7 = 1 6 + 1 and 3 1 = 3 2 − 1 .
Using this similarity...
1 6 3 1 = ( 2 4 ) 3 1 = 2 1 2 4 . Clearly, 1 7 3 1 > 1 6 3 1 so 1 7 3 1 > 2 1 2 4 .
3 2 1 7 = ( 2 5 ) 1 7 = 2 8 5 . Clearly, 3 1 1 7 < 3 2 1 7 so 3 1 1 7 < 2 8 5 .
Since 2 1 2 4 > 2 8 5 , we can definitely say that 1 7 3 1 > 3 1 1 7 .