Somebody's Wrong

Two students, Jon and Javin, are trying to find the spring constant k k of an ideal, massless spring.

Both of their setups are the same:

  1. Hang the spring in a vertical position and measure the length of the unextended spring L 1 L_1 .
  2. Hang a known mass of mass m m at the bottom of the spring, and measure the length of the extended spring L 2 L_2
  3. Find the length of extension: x = L 2 L 1 x = L_2 - L_1 .

However, Jon and Javin have different ways of finding k k .


Jon proposes:

Suppose the mass is hung on the spring and supported such that the spring remains unextended. This mass has more gravitational potential energy compared to when the mass is unsupported and the spring extends to length L 2 L_2 . In fact, it has m g x mgx more gravitational potential energy, where g g is the gravitational field strength. This additional gravitational potential energy must be converted to potential energy of the spring as the spring extends to length L 2 L_2 , which is 1 2 k x 2 \displaystyle \frac{1}{2} kx^2 by Hooke's Law. Hence by Conservation of Energy, m g x = 1 2 k x 2 \displaystyle mgx = \frac{1}{2}kx^2 , so k = 2 m g x \displaystyle k=\frac{2mg}{x} .


Javin proposes:

The gravitational force on the mass is m g mg , where g g is the gravitational field strength, while the force on the mass by the spring is k x kx by Hooke's Law. Since the mass is in equilibrium, by Newton's First Law, the forces on the mass must balance: k x = m g kx = mg . Hence k = m g x \displaystyle k = \frac{mg}{x} .


Jon's and Javin's expressions for k k differ. Who has the correct reasoning?

Jon Javin

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3 solutions

Parth Sankhe
Nov 16, 2018

When you tie a mass at the end of the spring and release it, it will go further down (i.e exceed length L 2 L_2 , let that length be L 3 L_3 ) and then oscillate about its equilibrium point L 2 L_2 . The velocity of the block is 0 at the lowest point L 3 L_3 , not L 2 L_2 . When equating potential energy to kinetic energy, x x would be L 3 L 1 L_3-L_1 , not L 2 L 1 L_2-L_1 .Thus, Jon is wrong.

Yep, in order to lower the block to L 2 L_2 such that it is in equilibrium, work has to be done on the block against gravity, and this would explain the missing energy.

Julian Poon - 2 years, 6 months ago
Steve Smith
Dec 29, 2018

I guessed it

Jon's spring value for L 2 L_2 will be greater than actual as adding mass will increase the length of L 2 L_2

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