Someone's Probably Lying, Right?

Logic Level 1

An islander on Truth & Untruth is either a Truth-tellers who always tell the truth or a Lying-liars who always lie.

You come across three islanders and ask them, "How many Truth-tellers are there among the three of you?"

  • The one lying down responds first, but she talks softly and you don't understand what she says.
  • The one seated beside her says, "My friend just said that there is one truth-teller among us."
  • But then the standing one counters, "Don't believe that, he's lying!"

What can you determine about the seated and standing inhabitants?

It is impossible to tell what they are from this conversation alone They are both Lying-liars The seated one is a Lying-liar, the standing one is a Truth-teller They are both Truth-tellers The seated one is a Truth-teller, the standing one is a Lying-liar

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2 solutions

Relevant wiki: Truth-Tellers and Liars

* The wording of this question has been changed since I posted my solution. For reference, "knaves" are the liars and "knights" are the truth-tellers. *

We will look at the 4 4 options that can be assigned to the "lying down" inhabitant, (#1), and see how these options play out with regards to the other two inhabitants. These 4 4 options are generated by whether or not #1 is a knight or a knave, and by whether of not she did whisper the statement S S which the seated inhabitant, (#2), attributes to her.

  • (i) #1 is a knave and does say S S : if she is a knave and did say S S then, since she is lying, there is/are either 0 0 or 2 2 knights among the inhabitants. Since she did say S , S, #2 must be a knight, which means #3 must be a knave as he would be calling a knight a liar. This would leave us with a total of 1 1 knight, which can't be the case since S S is a lie. Thus this scenario is impossible.

  • (ii) #1 is a knave and does not say S S : this implies that #2 is lying and is hence also a knave, which in turn means that #3 is telling the truth and is thus a knight.

  • (iii) #1 is a knight and does say S S : this would imply that #2 is also a knight since he is telling the truth. But this would mean that there are 2 2 knights, (#3 would be lying and hence be a knave), contradicting statement S , S, which is inconsistent with this option. Thus this scenario is impossible.

  • (iv) #1 is a knight and does not say S S : this implies that #2 is lying and is thus a knave, which would in turn mean that #3 is telling the truth and must thus be a knight.

From this case analysis we see that in both of the two scenarios that are logically possible the seated inhabitant is a knave and the standing one is a knight.

(Note that we cannot make any conclusions about #1, as she could logically either be a knave or a knight base on the information provided.)

I thought all islanders are either liars or truth tellers

Zhi Wei - 5 years, 6 months ago

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They don't have to be all the same. Each islander can either be a truth-teller or a liar, but if they are a truth-teller then they will a l w a y s always tell the truth, and if they are a liar then they will a l w a y s always lie.

P.S.. The wording of the question has been changed since I posted my solution. Previously "knaves" referred to the liars and "knights" to the truth-tellers. Perhaps that was the essence of your query. :)

Brian Charlesworth - 5 years, 6 months ago

If he lies on Tuesday he also lies on wednesday

Audrey Papke - 4 years, 9 months ago

The question is ambiguous. "There is one truth teller among us" is also truth if you have 2 truth tellers. The right answer must be "impossible". Or you must include de word "only" in your statement

Plinio Bernardi Jr - 3 years, 7 months ago

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My interpretation is that "there is one truth teller among us" is implicitly equivalent to "there is precisely one truth teller among us" by default, otherwise it would have been stated "there is at least one truth teller among us". I can understand your objection, and it has been raised by others, but Staff seems to have decided that the present wording is sufficient.

Brian Charlesworth - 3 years, 7 months ago

The man said "Don't believe that, he's lying," which could also mean he's lying down

andrew Tolley - 2 years ago

Why can we be sure that the seated inhabitant is a liar?

I'll show you my reasoning in case you can help me.

Imagine that the girl lying says that "there is one Truth-teller among them" and we mark this statement as false. Then we have that the man seated is telling the truth and the standing inhabitant is also telling the truth because the girl is lying. By this way we have:

The girl is lying .......... Lying-liar.

The seated man is telling the truth .........Truth-teller.

The standing man is telling the truth .........Truth-teller.

Thus, apart from the solution posted in which it's said that the seated inhabitant is lying and the standing one is telling the truth, I think this combination is also possible.

Thank you and I hope I get some help in case my approach is wrong!! :)

Andrea P - 10 months, 1 week ago

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"The girl is lying .......... Lying-liar.

The seated man is telling the truth .........Truth-teller.

The standing man is telling the truth .........Truth-teller."

I think you're misunderstanding something here. If the seated TT is telling the truth by with whatever he did hear from the LL woman, then the standing TT would NOT have accused a comrade of lying, he'd just direct his accusation towards the real roots of evil, not towards an innocent message-bearer. A standing TT who did what you said is essentially NOT a truth teller.

Saya Suka - 3 months, 1 week ago
Saya Suka
Mar 7, 2021

By the way that there exist an argument between the one sitting and the one standing, we can infer that there must be a truth teller (TT) and a lying liar (LL) between the two. Thus, amongst the three, there must be at least one and at most two truth teller present.

In the first scenario where there's only one TT between them, this sole TT would have been either one of the 2 men who argued, and it'd be impossible for the LL woman to tell the truth about it (of 1 TT present), and the conveyed message by the sitting man is clearly been tempered with.

For the second scenario with 2 TTs, the TT woman would have been honest and said just that, of there being 2 of them, so again, the middleman is intercepting once again, and this time it's the truth instead of a lie like what happened in the previous scenario.

Anyway, the seated one is a Lying-liar and the standing one is a Truth-teller.

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