Spiky Problem!

Geometry Level 3

Six straight, zigzagging lines are drawn inside an 8 × 1 8\times1 rectangle. The drawing starts at the top left vertex and ends at the top right vertex.

What is the minimum possible sum of the lengths of these 6 segments?


The answer is 10.

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13 solutions

Joshua Lowrance
May 9, 2018

Relevant wiki: Length and Area Problem Solving

Make six copies of the 1 by 8 rectangles and place them next to each as shown below, so they make a 6 by 8 rectangle. The minimum distance from the top left vertex to the bottom right vertex is a straight line, and Pythagorean theorm says that this line is 10

I had that in mind! I just didn’t understand the question properly!

Guess Who Am I - 3 years ago

So elegant!

Elizandro Max - 3 years ago

This is what I did. Reminds me of Heron's "Shortest Distance" problem.

Ian Leslie - 3 years ago

This is brilliant!

Manaf Refaie - 3 years ago

This is elegant!

Mark Adel - 3 years ago

I was just about to give this solution. Too late!

Subin Manandhar - 3 years ago

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You Snooze - You Lose! lol

But in this case, take all of these positive comments above and below, and apply then to yourself also.

I love the way your brain, and Justin’s brain, work!

Never too late!

Great work.

Michael Leslie Troth - 2 years, 10 months ago

Excellent solution - succinct and beautifully clear.

Thomas Sutcliffe - 3 years ago

This is a pretty solution! I wondered how i can show that this is the minimal distance possible. Thanks for the way!

KisoX . - 3 years ago

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If you mean prove the statement "the shortest distance between two points is a straight line", you could apply calculus to minimize arclength like here although it's definitely considered one of those known results that doesn't need re-proving every time.

Jason Dyer Staff - 3 years ago

Elegantly done.

Rich Rhodes - 3 years ago

what if there were 7 lines? would you still have connected the top left corner to the bottom right one, or, to the top right corner of the 7th box?

Suyash Fartyal - 3 years ago

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If there were 7 lines, we would add another 1 by 8 box at the bottom. The line would still connect the top left corner to the bottom right one.

Joshua Lowrance - 3 years ago

Ingenious Solution!!!! I Like the way you made the problem so easy

Scientific Foundry - 3 years ago

fantastic solution!

Minkehr . - 3 years ago

great way to visualize the solution

Carlton Johnson - 3 years ago

That's an awesome way to look at this.

Brody Burkett - 3 years ago

Genius solution

Georges Jetti - 3 years ago

Wow great solution

Apoorva Singal - 3 years ago

That is out of box thinking...

Gupta Gupta - 3 years ago

Wow this is why math is so interesting! You made it look so simple and yet that was not my approach.

Brandon Gillins - 3 years ago

How did you come about this solution? Is each box just alternated flipped sections where the line bounced from a wall?

Caleb Thibodeaux - 3 years ago

Now you just valley and mountain fold the rectangle along the length and theres the minimum path. (Mind blown)

Leo Chung Yin Kwong - 3 years ago

Covering space.

Richard Desper - 3 years ago

I love the way your brain, and Subin Manandhar’s brain works. I, like many others ‘felt’ that equal triangles in this case equaled the minimum distance, and from there calculated the correct answer. Unfortunately ‘feeling’ doesn’t count in mathematics. Your ‘proof’ is one that a child or uneducated adult could easily understand. I hope you are a mathematics teacher wherever you are. Thank you so much for sharing.

Michael Leslie Troth - 2 years, 10 months ago

Nice creativity

Harshit Gupta - 2 years, 10 months ago
Naren Bhandari
May 27, 2018

Let l 1 , l 2 , , l 6 l_1 , l_2 , \cdots , l_6 be the length of hypotenuse of each right angles triangles (above). Clearly l 1 = a 2 + 1 , l 2 = b 2 + 1 , , l 6 = f 2 + 1 l_1 = \sqrt{a^2+1}, l_2 = \sqrt{b^2+1} , \cdots, l_6 =\sqrt{f^2+1} To minimize the sum of the length of the 6 segments we apply AM-GM inequality l 1 + l 2 + + l 6 6 l 1 l 2 l 5 l 6 6 l_1+l_2+\cdots+l_6 \geq 6\sqrt[6]{l_1\cdot l_2\cdots l_5\cdot l_6} Equality occurs if l 1 = l 2 = = l 5 = l 6 a = b = = f a = b = c = d = e = f = 4 3 l 1 = l 2 = = l 6 = ( 4 3 ) 2 + 1 = 5 3 l_1=l_2=\cdots =l_5 =l_6 \implies a=b=\cdots = f\\ a=b=c=d=e=f=\dfrac{4}{3}\\ \implies l_1 =l_2 = \cdots =l_6 = \sqrt{\left(\frac{4}{3}\right)^2+1}=\dfrac{5}{3} Hence, l 1 + l 2 + + l 6 6 ( 5 3 ) 6 6 10 l_1+l_2+\cdots +l_6 \geq 6\sqrt[6]{\left(\dfrac{5}{3}\right)^6} \geq 10 Therefore, the minimum possible answer is 10 \boxed{10} .

Wow. I love how you didn't just discard the zigzaged the shape but formalised how it should be redrawn. Beautiful solution.

Beaver von Hüpfburg - 3 years ago

The idea of using AM-GM is good. But there is one fundamental problem: The RHS of the AM-GM inequality is not a constant number. Considering a case in which not all 6 segments have the same length. Now LHS>RHS in your inequality. However, it is possible that this RHS now is far less than the RHS/LHS of the (in)equality you would obtain when all 6 segments are the same. And if the LHS now is only slightly larger than the RHS, this LHS could be indeed less than the LHS you get in your equality in the case that all 6 segments are the same!

Michael Genius - 3 years ago

Your use of AM-GM is incorrect. You showed that l 1 + l 2 + + l 6 is minimized compared to 6 l 1 l 2 l 5 l 6 6 l_1+l_2+\cdots+l_6 \text{is minimized} \textbf{ compared to } 6\sqrt[6]{l_1\cdot l_2\cdots l_5\cdot l_6} when l 1 = l 2 = = l 5 = l 6 l_1=l_2=\cdots =l_5 =l_6 . You did not show that l 1 + l 2 + + l 6 l_1+l_2+\cdots+l_6 is minimized when l 1 = l 2 = = l 5 = l 6 l_1=l_2=\cdots =l_5 =l_6 .

John Ross - 3 years ago

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We can relate AM-GM with Jensen inequality which can shows l 1 + l 2 + l 3 + + l 6 l_1+ l_2 +l_3 +\cdots + l_6 is minimized when l 6 = l 5 = = l 2 = l 1 l_6 =l_5 =\cdots =l_2=l_1 .

Naren Bhandari - 3 years ago

You using AM-GM correct but your solution nevertheless is wrong. The whole ideal to use AM-GM is to fix one side of the inequality to a fixed known quantitiy. In this case it would be a + b + c + d + e + f = 8 a+b+c+d+e+f=8 . When you have a vary RHS then it isn't a minimum. For example, x 2 + y 2 ( x + y ) 2 2 x^2+y^2 \geq \frac{(x+y)^2}{2} but you can't say the RHS is the minimum. In fact it also greater than 2 x y 2xy .

Anh Dinh - 3 years ago
Stephen Mellor
May 9, 2018

Minimum possible distance is when they are equally spaced out. By dividing up, we see that one length is the hypotenuse of the triangle with other sides 4 3 \frac{4}{3} & 1 1 making one of the line segments have length 5 3 \frac53 and the total being 6 × 5 3 = 10 6 \times \frac53 = \boxed{10}

Your assertion that the minimum possible distance is when they are equally spaced out is correct, but you need to justify it.

corwin . - 3 years ago
Amil Dravid
May 31, 2018

We see that we must move a horizontal distance of 8 and a vertical distance 6×1=6. To optimize the distance, use pythagorean's theorem: sqrt (6^2+8^2)=10.

Toby Harris
May 29, 2018

To gain the minimum length of the sum of the six lengths, make each length the same length (unlike in the diagram where each of the lines are differmet lengths). By this I mean divide up the points where each line touches the edge of the rectangle into equal distances apart. To do this do 8 6 \frac{8}{6} , which is 4 3 \frac{4}{3} . This gives you the base length of each of these small right angled triangles formed when making each length equal. By using simple Pythagoras you can calculate the length of one of these lines:

4 3 2 + 1 2 \sqrt{\frac{4}{3}^{2} + 1^{2}} = 5 3 \frac{5}{3}

Because there are six lines all together, multiply this by six, which gives 10.

Tousif Ahmad
May 31, 2018

Can be solved by considering the path as the path followed by light and the sides as mirrors. Now Fermat principle (which can be easily proved) says the path is minimum for i=r. This makes all the triangles identical. and the length of each segment 5/3 and hence the total length 5/3 x 6 = 10

Ju Lu
May 29, 2018

As the entire length has to be definitely and only be covered by 6 segments we can intuitively divide the box into 3 parts with two right-angled triangles each

  • The cut off rectangle is in the dimension 2.667 * 1. We can make an equation for the sum of the two segments. √((X^2)+1) + √( 8 3 \frac{8}{3} -x)^2 + 1). The X is a variable and the length of the base of one of the triangles. (Can be any) Through the graph below we find the best value of x to obtain the smallest total value is 1.33. The smallest total value is 3.33. When we multiply this by 3 we get 10
Jesse Nieminen
May 29, 2018

Let's think about this in terms of complex numbers.
Let the sides of length 8 8 and 1 1 be parallel to real and imaginary axis respectively.

Now, we can think of these segments as complex numbers, a k ± i a_k \pm i , where k [ 1 , 6 ] k \in [1,6] are real and k = 1 6 a k = 8 \sum\limits_{k=1}^{6} a_k = 8

Now, length of the segment associated with a k a_k is a k 2 + 1 \sqrt{a_k^2 + 1}

However, the function x 2 + 1 \sqrt{x^2 + 1} happens to be a convex function meaning that according to Jensen's inequality, k = 1 6 a k 2 + 1 6 ( 1 6 k = 1 6 a k ) 2 + 1 = 10 \sum\limits_{k=1}^{6} \sqrt{a_k^2 + 1} \geq 6\sqrt{\left(\dfrac16\sum\limits_{k=1}^{6} a_k\right)^2 + 1} = 10

Equality is attained when all a k a_k are equal meaning that the solution is 10 \boxed{10}

Daniel Wang
Jun 2, 2018

Using Fermat's principle( link text ),we can assume that there's a beam of light going though the rectangle with total reflection.Then there will be six congruent right triangles.We can get the answer by multiplying 5 3 \frac{5}{3} and 6.

Christopher Smith
May 31, 2018

I disagree with the solution. Or I'm missing a criteria. If the first 5 lines are virtually vertical, their lengths are very nearly 1. The last line would then virtually cross the diagonal of the 1x8 rectangle (root 65... approx 8.06). This gives a total length approaching 13.06.

The problem is asking for the minimum total length. Since 10 < 13.06 10 < 13.06 , the total length given by other solutions is less than yours, and yours cannot be the minimum.

Brian Moehring - 3 years ago
Marcus Luebke
May 31, 2018

We can imagine the path of the lines as a beam of light, and we know that light always moves with the least action. We also know that the angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection for a light beam, so the reflected ray from every reflection is a mirrored version of the incident ray. Thus, all the lengths are identical to the first one, which traverses 8/6 units across and 1 units down, for a length of 1 + 8 6 2 \sqrt{1+\frac{8}{6}^2} . Because there are 6 identical segments, the total length is 6 1 + 8 6 2 = 6 2 + 8 2 = 100 = 10 6\sqrt{1+\frac{8}{6}^2}=\sqrt{6^2+8^2}=\sqrt{100}=10 .

Wayne Jacobs
May 30, 2018

WOW for a bunch of smart people you sure make this hard.

Pythagorean Triples

A Pythagorean triple is a right triangle where all the sides are integers. One of the most popular Pythagorean triples is the 3-4-5 right triangle. 3 and 4 are the lengths of the shorter sides, and 5 is the length of the hypotenuse, the longest side opposite the right angle.

If you run through the Pythagorean Theorem on this one, you can see that it checks out:

3^1 + 4^1.33337 = 5^1.66667

3 + 5.33335 =8.33335

8.33335= 8.33335

1.66667x6=10.00002

Leonel Castillo
May 29, 2018

We may think of this problem as choosing 6 distances a i a_i such that i = 1 6 a i = 8 \sum_{i=1}^6 a_i = 8 . The length of each segment will then be a i 2 + 1 \sqrt{a_i^2 + 1} and the function we want to minimize is i = 1 6 a i 2 + 1 \sum_{i=1}^6 \sqrt{a_i^2 + 1} . Using lagrange multipliers, the condition for a extreme value is a i a i + 1 = λ \frac{a_i}{\sqrt{a_i + 1}} = \lambda . In other words, a i a i + 1 \frac{a_i}{\sqrt{a_i + 1}} must remain invariant in our choice of distances. With this in mind let's examine the solutions of the equation

x x 2 + 1 = y y 2 + 1 \frac{x}{\sqrt{x^2 + 1}} = \frac{y}{\sqrt{y^2 + 1}} .

We may rewrite it as x 2 ( y 2 + 1 ) = y 2 ( x 2 + 1 ) ( y x ) 2 + x 2 = ( y x ) 2 + y 2 x 2 = y 2 x = y x = y x^2(y^2 + 1) = y^2(x^2 + 1) \implies (yx)^2 + x^2 = (yx)^2 + y^2 \implies x^2 = y^2 \implies |x| = |y| \implies x=y . The last equality only follows because we are working with distances which are positive. From this we conclude that a i = a j a_i = a_j . Let's say that a i = x a_i = x . Then i = 1 6 a i = 8 6 x = 8 x = 4 3 \sum_{i=1}^6 a_i = 8 \implies 6x = 8 \implies x = \frac{4}{3} .

Finally, i = 1 6 a i 2 + 1 = 6 ( 4 3 ) 2 + 1 = 10 \sum_{i=1}^6 \sqrt{a_i^2 + 1} = 6\sqrt{ \left(\frac{4}{3}\right)^2 + 1} = 10

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