Split two peas in a pod

What is the smallest integer N N , such that no matter how we split the set S N = { 1 , 2 , , N } S_N = \{ 1, 2, \ldots, N \} into two sets A A and B B , there exists one set such that we can find 20 (not necessarily distinct) elements x 1 , x 2 , x 20 x_1, x_2, \ldots x_{20} satisfying

x 1 + x 2 + + x 19 = x 20 ? x_1 + x_2 + \ldots + x_{19} = x_{20}?


The answer is 379.

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4 solutions

We claim that N = 379 N=379 . Note that for N = 378 N=378 , then S 378 = { 1 , 2 , , 378 } S_{378} = \left\{1, 2, \cdots , 378\right\} . Setting B = { 19 , 20 , , 360 } B=\left\{19, 20, \cdots , 360\right\} and the rest in A A , we can see that if x 1 , x 2 , , x 19 x_1, x_2, \cdots, x_{19} are all in A A , then either 19 x 1 + x 2 + + x 19 342 19 \leq x_1+x_2+\cdots+x_{19} \leq 342 or x 1 + x 2 + + x 19 379 x_1+x_2+\cdots+x_{19} \geq 379 . Hence there are no x 1 , x 2 , , x 20 x_1, x_2, \cdots, x_{20} in A A satisfying x 1 + x 2 + + x 19 = x 20 x_1+x_2+\cdots+x_{19}=x_{20} .

Similarly, if x 1 , x 2 , , x 19 x_1, x_2, \cdots, x_{19} are all in B B , then x 1 + x 2 + + x 19 361 x_1+x_2+\cdots+x_{19} \geq 361 . Hence there are no x 1 , x 2 , , x 20 x_1, x_2, \cdots, x_{20} in B B satisfying x 1 + x 2 + + x 19 = x 20 x_1+x_2+\cdots+x_{19}=x_{20} .

Thus, S 378 S_{378} can be split into two sets A A and B B without the condition being fulfilled. It is easy to see that for all N 378 N\leq 378 , S N S_N can also be split into two sets A A and B B without the condition being fulfilled. Hence N > 378 N>378 .

For N = 379 N=379 , suppose we can split S 379 S_{379} into two sets A A and B B such that there doesn't exist a set from which we can choose 20 elements x 1 , x 2 , , x 20 x_1, x_2, \cdots, x_{20} satisfying the given equation.

WLOG assume 1 A 1 \in A . It follows that 19 B 19 \in B . Hence 361 A 361 \in A . If 20 A 20 \in A then selecting x 1 = 1 x_1=1 , x 2 = x 3 = = x 19 = 20 x_2=x_3=\cdots=x_{19}=20 , and x 20 = 361 x_{20}=361 yields a contradiction, since x 1 , x 2 , , x 20 x_1,x_2,\cdots,x_{20} are all in A A and satisfies the equation. Hence 20 B 20 \in B .

If 379 A 379\in A , then selecting x 1 = 361 x_1=361 , x 2 = x 3 = = x 19 = 1 x_2=x_3=\cdots=x_{19}=1 , and x 20 = 379 x_{20}=379 yields a contradiction, since x 1 , x 2 , , x 20 x_1,x_2,\cdots,x_{20} are all in A A and satisfies the equation. Thus 379 B 379\in B . But then selecting x 1 = 19 x_1=19 , x 2 = x 3 = = x 19 = 20 x_2=x_3=\cdots=x_{19}=20 , and x 20 = 379 x_{20}=379 yields a contradiction, since x 1 , x 2 , , x 20 x_1,x_2,\cdots,x_{20} are all in B B and satisfies the equation. Therefore for N = 379 N=379 , no matter how we split S 379 S_{379} into two sets A A and B B , the condition is always fulfilled.

Therefore, N = 379 N=379 is the minimum value for N N for which the condition will always be fulfilled.

What would your answer be, if 19 was replaced with the variable m m ?

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 8 months ago

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It would be m 2 + m 1 m^2+m-1 . For if N = m 2 + m 2 N=m^2+m-2 , setting B = { m , m + 1 , , m ( m 1 ) } B=\left\{m,m+1,\cdots ,m(m-1)\right\} and the rest in A A will cause the equation x 1 + x 2 + + x m = x m + 1 x_1+x_2+\cdots+x_m=x_{m+1} to have no solutions if x 1 , x 2 , , x m + 1 x_1,x_2,\cdots,x_{m+1} are all in A A or are all in B B .

But if N = m 2 + m 1 N=m^2+m-1 , if we suppose S N S_N can be split without the condition being fulfilled, then by assuming WLOG that 1 A 1\in A we have m B m\in B and m 2 A m^2\in A . We will also then have m + 1 B m+1\in B and each of the two cases m 2 + m 1 A m^2+m-1\in A and m 2 + m 1 B m^2+m-1\in B will both yield a contradiction.

Taufiq Akbari Utomo - 7 years, 8 months ago

I did not understand anything this solution is trying to achieve 🤨

A Former Brilliant Member - 1 year, 2 months ago
Peter Byers
Sep 30, 2013

Suppose N = 1 9 2 + 18 = 379 N=19^2+18=379 . WLOG 1 A 1\in A . If x 1 , . . . , x 20 x_1,...,x_{20} don't exist, then 19 B 19\in B , so 1 9 2 A 19^2\in A , and 1 9 2 + 18 B 19^2+18\in B . However, 20 could not be in either set, because 1 9 2 = 1 + 18 ( 20 ) 19^2 = 1+18(20) and 1 9 2 + 18 = 19 + 18 ( 20 ) 19^2+18 = 19+18(20) .

On the other hand, if N = 1 9 2 + 17 = 378 N=19^2+17=378 then no x 1 , . . . , x 20 x_1,...,x_{20} exist for A = { 1 , . . . , 18 , 1 9 2 , . . . , 1 9 2 + 17 } A=\{1, ..., 18, 19^2, ... , 19^2+17\} and B = { 19 , . . . , 1 9 2 1 } B=\{19, ... , 19^2-1\} , which shows that 379 379 in minimal.

Can you please explain how you got the number 379 379 ? I tried smaller values rather than 19 19 , but was unable to find any pattern. Nice solution though!

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 8 months ago

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If 1 1 is in A A then 19 19 must be in B B , and then 1 9 2 19^2 must be in A A . In fact we find that we can stick all numbers between 19 19 and 1 9 2 1 19^2-1 in B B , and all numbers between 1 1 and 18 18 in A A without allowing a sum to exist. Then we get to 379 379 as it's 1 9 2 + 1 + 1 + . . . + 1 19^2 + 1 + 1 + ... + 1 but clearly also possible in many ways from B B .

Matt McNabb - 7 years, 8 months ago
Zi Song Yeoh
Oct 1, 2013

We claim that N = 379 N = 379 is the answer.

  1. Suppose N = 378 N = 378 satisfies the condition, then let A = A = { 19 , 20 , 21 , . . . , 360 19, 20, 21, ..., 360 } and B = B = { 1 , 2 , . . . , 18 , 361 , 362 , . . . , 378 1, 2, ..., 18, 361, 362, ..., 378 }. It is clear that we can't find the required 20 20 numbers in both sets.

  2. On the other hand, N = 379 N = 379 satisfies the condition because, if not, let 1 B 1 \in B . Then 19 A 19 \in A . (because 19 = 19 × 1 19 = 19 \times 1 .) Then 361 B 361 \in B . ( 19 + 19 + . . . + 19 19 + 19 + ... + 19 ( 19 19 times) = 361 = 361 , so 19 19 and 361 361 can't be in the same set.). For similar reasons, 361 + 18 ( 1 ) = 379 A 361 + 18(1) = 379 \in A . Consider 20 20 . If 20 A 20 \in A , then 18 ( 20 ) + 19 = 379 18(20) + 19 = 379 , a contradiction to no such numbers exist. Else, if 20 B 20 \in B , then 18 ( 20 ) + 1 = 361 18(20) + 1 = 361 , also a contradiction. Thus, we conclude that N = 379 N = 379 is the minimum possible value that satisfies the requirements.

What would your answer be, if 19 was replaced with the variable m m ?

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years, 8 months ago

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Since, 379 379 works because 379 = 1 9 2 + 19 1 379 = 19^2 + 19 - 1 , I guess the general formula is m 2 + m 1 m^2 + m - 1 . I think the proof should be similar to the above .

Zi Song Yeoh - 7 years, 8 months ago
Mark Hennings
Sep 30, 2013

Suppose that N 379 N \ge 379 and that there is no way of splitting S N S_N as desired. For definiteness, suppose that 1 A 1 \in A . Then A A cannot contain 19 = 19 × 1 19 = 19\times1 , and hence 19 B 19 \in B . Then B B cannot contain 361 = 19 × 19 361=19\times19 , and hence 361 A 361 \in A . Then A A cannot contain 379 = 361 + 18 × 1 379 = 361 + 18\times1 , and hence 379 B 379 \in B . Since 379 = 18 × 20 + 19 379 = 18\times20 + 19 , we deduce that B B cannot contain 20 20 , and hence 20 A 20 \in A . But this is impossible, since 1 , 20 , 361 A 1,20,361 \in A and 361 = 18 × 20 + 1 361 = 18\times20+1 .

Thus we deduce that S N S_N can be split as required for any N 379 N \ge 379 .

If N 378 N \le 378 , then the decomposition A = { 1 , 2 , , 18 , 361 , 362 , , 378 } S N B = { 19 , 20 , , 360 } S N \begin{array}{rcl}A & = & \{1,2,\ldots,18,361,362,\ldots,378\}\cap S_N \\ B & = & \{19,20,\ldots, 360\}\cap S_N \end{array} shows that it is not always possible to split S N S_N as desired in this case. Thus the smallest possible value of N N that we want is 379 379 .

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