Square Root Sum

How many ordered positive integer triples ( x , y , z ) (x, y, z) are there, such that x , y x, y and z z range from 1 to 25 inclusive, and

x + y = z ? \sqrt{ x} + \sqrt{y} = \sqrt{z} ?


The answer is 16.

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11 solutions

Lawrence Limesa
May 20, 2014

x + y = z \sqrt{x} +\sqrt{y} = \sqrt{z}

square both sides

x + y + 2 x y = z x+y+2 \sqrt{xy} = z

since 1 z 25 1 \leq z \leq 25 ,

therefore 1 x + y + 2 x y 25 1 \leq x+y+2 \sqrt{xy} \leq 25 where 2 x y > 0 2 \sqrt{xy} >0

We also know that 2 x y 2 \sqrt{xy} must be integer because on the Right Hand Side only z z exists, which is an integer.

Without Loss of Generality, x y x \leq y , so the list of possible values of ( x , y ) (x,y) are ( 1 , 1 ) , ( 1 , 4 ) , ( 1 , 9 ) , ( 1 , 16 ) , ( 2 , 2 ) , ( 2 , 8 ) , ( 2 , 18 ) , ( 3 , 3 ) , ( 3 , 12 ) , ( 4 , 4 ) , ( 4 , 9 ) , ( 4 , 16 ) , ( 5 , 5 ) , ( 6 , 6 ) , . . . , ( k , k ) , . . . , ( 12 , 12 ) (1,1), (1,4), (1,9), (1,16), (2,2), (2,8), (2,18), (3,3), (3,12), (4,4), (4,9), (4,16), (5,5), (6,6), ... , (k,k), ... , (12,12) without considering the value of z z .

By substituting each possible ( x , y ) (x,y) values we get that only ( 1 , 1 ) , ( 1 , 4 ) , ( 1 , 9 ) , ( 1 , 16 ) , ( 2 , 2 ) , ( 2 , 8 ) , ( 3 , 3 ) , ( 4 , 4 ) , ( 4 , 9 ) , ( 5 , 5 ) , ( 6 , 6 ) (1,1), (1,4), (1,9), (1,16), (2,2), (2,8), (3,3), (4,4), (4,9), (5,5), (6,6) fulfill the conditions, counted with multiplicity. So, there are 16 16 possible triples ( x , y , z ) (x,y,z) .

This is an interesting solution, which sidesteps the need to properly classify all solutions.

All correct solutions involve some kind of case-by-case analysis. The most common mistake was to introduce some unjustified restrictions, for example: "Let \­(\sqrt{x}=a\sqrt{n}\­) \­( \sqrt{y}=b\sqrt{n} \­) \­( \sqrt{z}=c\sqrt{n} \­)" While this restriction makes sense intuitively, and is ultimately true, it definitely requires justification. How would you show this?

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago

Ít's easy to prove that zy must be a perfect square and z>x,y. Then z cannot be a prime number or equal pq ( p,q are distinct prime numbers) or else y >= z. Therefore z can only be {25,24,20,28,16,12,9,8,4} z=25 gives (x,y)=(16,1),(9,4),(4,9) or (1,16) z=24 gives (x,y)=(6,6) z=20 gives (x,y)=(5,5) z=18 gives (x,y)=(2,8),(8,2) z=16 gives (x,y)=(9,1),(4,4),(1,9) z=12 gives (x,y)=(3,3) z=9 gives (x,y)=(4,1),(1,4) z=8 gives (x,y)=(2,2) z=4 gives (x,y)=(1,1) Hence the answer is 16

Brute force solution, with a few details skipped

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Cuong Doan
May 20, 2014

1 x , y , z 25 z 2 1 \leq x, y, z \leq 25 \Rightarrow z \geq 2

Let z = k × m 2 k \times m^2 , with k and m are 2 positive integers, k is not divisble by any square number greater than 1

x + y = z \sqrt{x} + \sqrt{y} = \sqrt{z}

x = m k y \Rightarrow \sqrt{x} = m\sqrt{k} - \sqrt{y}

x = k m 2 2 m k y + y \Rightarrow x = km^2- 2m\sqrt{k*y} + y

So, k y ky must be a square, so y can be written as y = k × n 2 y = k \times n^2 , n is a positive integer. Similarly, we can prove that x = k × p 2 x=k \times p^2 , p is a positive integer

Now we only have to find the number of positive integer triples m , n , p m,n,p such that m 2 + p 2 = n 2 \sqrt{m^2} + \sqrt{p^2} = \sqrt{n^2} or m + p = n m + p =n with 1 m , n , p 5 1 \leq m, n ,p \leq 5

  • If n = 5, there are 4 solutions
  • If n = 4, there are 3 solutions
  • If n = 3, there are 2 solutions
  • If n = 2, there is 1 solution
  • n can't be 1

We have:

  • If n = 5 or n =4, k is always 1
  • If n = 3, k can be 1 or 2
  • If n = 2, k can be 1 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 ( k can't be 2 because the solution has been counted in the case n =4

Then, the answer is: 1 4 + 1 3 + 2 2 + 5 1 = 16 1*4 + 1*3 + 2*2 + 5*1 = 16

"If n = 2, k can be 1 or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6 ( k can't be 2 because the solution has been counted in the case n =4" Actually, k=2 is possible, but k=4 is not (k is square-free)

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Zubayet Zico
May 20, 2014

There can be 2 cases:

  1. √z is rational

  2. √z is irrational

Case 1)

We can prove that if √z is an integer then (√x,√y) must also be integers.

Suppose , k is an integer and z = k^2

Squaring gives:

x^2 + y^2 + 2 √xy = k^2 .

This means √xy = p^2 , where p is an integer

so, y = p^2 / x

thus, √x + p/√x = k

So x and hence y must be perfect squares.

So for case 1 , we can easily find the triples of solutions: the possible values of z are (25, 16 , 9 , 4 ) as these are perfect squares .

[Note : I have left √y to meet up the difference.]

when , z = 25 , √x +√y = 5 , √x = {1,2,3,4}, 4 solutions.

when , z = 16 , √x +√y = 4 , √x = {1,2,3} , 3 solutions .

when , z = 9 , √x +√y = 3 , √x = {1,2} , 2 solutions .

when , z = 4 , √x +√y = 2 , √x = {1} , 1 solution .

so,10 solutions in case 1

Case 2

If √z is irrational. Then none of √x or √y is rational. We can show this by an argument similar from case 1. So x and y are not squares.

F(√z) has degree of extension 2 over F . In this case, as √z = √x + √y ,√x + √y must also have degree of extension 2 over F .

Suppose that x = (A^2)m and y = (B^2)n where m , n are square free and m,n >1 .

assume ,√z = r = √x + √y = A√m + B√n . m and n cannot be equal unless . A = B = 0 . so, assume m and n are unequal . so,F(r) must contain both √m and √n . But then the degree of extension of F(r) over is at least 3 , when m and n are unequal. But since the degree is known to be 2 so m and n must be equal.

value of z has to be such that √z = C√q , C,q > 0

so , the possible value of √z = { √24=2√6 ,√20=2√5,√18=3√2,√12=2√3 , √8=2√2 }

[Note : I have again left √y to meet up the difference.]

when , √z = 2√6 = √x +√y ,√x = { 1√6 }

when , √z = 2√5 = √x +√y ,√x = { 1√5 }

when , √z = 3√2 = √x +√y ,√x = { 1√2 ,2√2 }

when , √z = 2√3 = √x +√y ,√x = { 1√3 }

when , √z = 2√2 = √x +√y ,√x = { 1√2 }

so, 6 solutions in case 2

so , case 1 + case 2 = 10 + 6 = 16

"so, y = p^2 / x

thus, √x + p/√x = k

So x and hence y must be perfect squares." The conclusion is correct but not fully justified.

"m and n cannot be equal unless . A = B = 0 " Not clear why

Some facts about field extensions are used without proof.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago

root 24 = 2 root 6 . root 20 = 2 root 5 . root 18 = 3 root 2 . root 16 = 2 root 4 . root 12 = 2 root 3 . root 8 = 2 root 2 . As root 24 = root 6 + root 6 . Similarly no.s 20 , 12 , 8 , 24 will have one - one solution each . But 18 will have 2 solutions as root 18 = root 2 + 2 root 2 . and also 18 = 2 root 2 +root 2 . ..Now counting for perfect squares 1,4,9,16,25 . 1 will have no solution . 4 will have 1 solution . As root 4 = root 1 +root 1 . 9 will have two solutions . As root 9 = root 1 +root 4 or root 4 + root 1 . 16 will have 3 solutions . As root 16 = root 9 + root 1 or root 1 + root 9 or root 4 + root 4 . 25 will have 4 solutions . As root 25 = root 1 + root 16 or root 16 + root 1 or root 4 + root 9 . or root 9 + root 4 . Hence in total we have . 1+1+1+1+2+1+2+3+4 = 16 solutions.

Brute force, with no real justification why there are no other solutions.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Pi Han Goh
May 20, 2014

First, I assume x y z x \leq y \leq z .

My attempt here is to find the upper bound of x x . If x 7 x \geq 7 , L H S 2 7 = 28 > 25 LHS \geq 2 \sqrt{7} = \sqrt{28} > \sqrt{25} , since z 25 z \leq 25 , we have have no solution with x 7 x \geq 7 .

So values of x x must be in the range of [ 1 , 6 ] [1, 6]

Now there's two cases. Either x = y x=y or x y x \neq y

If x = y x = y .

Suppose x = 1 L H S = 2 = 4 ( 1 , 1 , 4 ) x=1 \rightarrow LHS = 2 = \sqrt{4} \rightarrow (1,1,4) is a solution

Suppose x = 2 L H S = 2 2 = 8 = R H S ( 2 , 2 , 8 ) x=2 \rightarrow LHS = 2 \sqrt{2} = \sqrt{8} = RHS \rightarrow (2,2,8) is a solution

Suppose x = 3 L H S = 2 3 = 12 = R H S ( 3 , 3 , 12 ) x=3 \rightarrow LHS = 2 \sqrt{3} = \sqrt{12} = RHS \rightarrow (3,3,12) is a solution

Suppose x = 4 L H S = 2 4 = 16 = R H S ( 4 , 4 , 16 ) x=4 \rightarrow LHS = 2 \sqrt{4} = \sqrt{16} = RHS \rightarrow (4,4,16) is a solution

Suppose x = 5 L H S = 2 5 = 20 = R H S ( 5 , 5 , 20 ) x=5 \rightarrow LHS = 2 \sqrt{5} = \sqrt{20} = RHS \rightarrow (5,5,20) is a solution

Suppose x = 6 L H S = 2 6 = 24 = R H S ( 6 , 6 , 24 ) x=6 \rightarrow LHS = 2 \sqrt{6} = \sqrt{24} = RHS \rightarrow (6,6,24) is a solution

Which is a total of 6 6 solution

If x y x \neq y , then all x , y , z x,y,z are perfect squares, Knowing that 1 + 2 = 3 , 1 + 3 = 4 , 1 + 4 = 5 , 2 + 3 = 5 1+2=3,1+3=4,1+4=5,2+3=5 , note that we only consider R H S 25 = 5 RHS \leq \sqrt{25} =5 , we have

1 + 4 = 9 , 1 + 9 = 16 , 1 + 16 = 25 , 4 + 9 = 25 \sqrt{1} + \sqrt{4} = \sqrt{9}, \sqrt{1} + \sqrt{9} = \sqrt{16}, \sqrt{1} + \sqrt{16} = \sqrt{25}, \sqrt{4} + \sqrt{9} = \sqrt{25}

Which is a total of 4 4 solution. However, when we relax the constraint, x y x \leq y , values of x x and y y are interexchangeable. So the solution here is doubled: 8 8 solution.

Lastly, note that if ( x , y , z ) (x,y,z) is a solution, then ( a x , a y , a z ) (ax, ay, az) is a solution as well, where a a is a positive integer. Thus since ( 1 , 4 , 9 ) (1,4,9) and ( 4 , 1 , 9 ) (4,1,9) are solutions, then ( 2 , 8 , 18 ) (2,8,18) and ( 8 , 2 , 18 ) (8,2,18) are solutions as well. We need not consider other triples because any multiple of their value of z z is greater than 25 25 .

Hence, this gives a total of 6 + 8 + 2 = 16 6 + 8 + 2 = 16 solution.

"If x y x \neq y , then all x , y , z x,y,z are perfect squares" Not necessarily: (2,8,18) This lost solution is recovered later, in the last paragraph.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Daniel Wang
May 20, 2014

Let \­(\sqrt{x}=a\sqrt{n}\­) \­( \sqrt{y}=b\sqrt{n} \­) \­( \sqrt{z}=c\sqrt{n} \­)

We now have reduced the problem to finding possible values of \­( a,b,c \­) that work for each \­( n \­).

Case \­( n=1 \­) This implies that \­( \sqrt{1} \geq a,b,c \geq \sqrt{25} \­), resulting in \­( 10 \­) possible outcomes of \­( a+b=c \­).

Case \­( n=2 \­) \­( \sqrt{\frac{1}{2}} \geq a,b,c \geq \sqrt{\frac{25}{2}} \implies 1 \geq a,b,c \geq 3 \­), which results in \­( 3 \­) outcomes. (1+1=2, 1+2=3, 2+1=3)

We continue doing this for higher values of \­( n \­) with no perfect square factor (because if it had such a factor, it would have already been counted by a previous case) and find that when \­( n=3,5,6 \­), there are \­( 1,1,1 \­) outcomes, respectively.

The sum of the outcomes gives the answer, namely \­( 10+3+1+1+1=\boxed{16} \­).

"Let \­(\sqrt{x}=a\sqrt{n}\­) \­( \sqrt{y}=b\sqrt{n} \­) \­( \sqrt{z}=c\sqrt{n} \­)" It is not obvious why we can restrict to this case.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Raymond Lin
May 20, 2014

We only consider values for z where z \sqrt{z} is an integer or if it is of the form a b a\sqrt{b} , where a is prime and b is not the square of a prime. When z \sqrt{z} is not of one of these forms, it is impossible for it to be of the form x + y \sqrt{x}+\sqrt{y} .

We first consider the case when z \sqrt{z} is of the form 2 n 2\sqrt{n} , where n is not the square of a prime. The values for z when this is true are 8, 12, 20, and 24. In this case, the values for x and y must both be n, so there are a total of 4 ordered triples for this case.

Next, we consider when z \sqrt{z} is of the form a n a\sqrt{n} , where a > 2 and n is not the square of a prime. There is only one such number z, 18, and x and y must equal 2 and 8. Since we can order the 2 and 8 two ways, there are 2 ordered triples for this case.

Lastly, we consider the case where z is a perfect square. The values for z can be 4, 9, 16, and 25. 1 is not included since it is impossible for there to be x and y which match the conditions. x and y must be perfect squares for their square roots to add up to z, which is an integer. We find pairs of values which add up to z \sqrt{z} . There is 1 pair for z=4, 1 pair for z=9, 2 pairs for z=16, and 2 pairs for z=25. Since we can order each pair two ways when the x and y values are unique, there are a total of 10 ordered triples for this case (the pair (x, y) for z=4 is (1,1) and one of the pairs for z=16 is (4,4), and since the x and y values are the same, we can order them only one way).

We add up the number of pairs from each of the cases, getting a total of 4+2+10= 16 ordered triples.

"We only consider values for z where z \sqrt{z} is an integer or if it is of the form a b a\sqrt{b} , where a is prime and b is not the square of a prime. When z \sqrt{z} is not of one of these forms, it is impossible for it to be of the form x + y \sqrt{x}+\sqrt{y} ." This is only true for small x,y,z: (72,72,288) would have been a counterexample.

"x and y must be perfect squares for their square roots to add up to z," Not justified

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Calvin Lin Staff
May 13, 2014

Squaring both sides, we have 2 x y = z x y 2 \sqrt{xy} = z-x-y . Rearranging and squaring, we have 2 y z = z + y x 2\sqrt{yz}=z+y-x and 2 x z = x + y z 2\sqrt{xz}=x+y-z . Since x y , y z xy, yz and x z xz are integers and x y , y z \sqrt{xy}, \sqrt{yz} and y z \sqrt{yz} are rational numbers, this implies that x z , y z \sqrt{xz}, \sqrt{yz} and x z \sqrt{xz} must be integers (proof in given here ).

Let x y = A 2 xy = A^2 , y z = B 2 yz = B^2 and x z = C 2 xz=C^2 for some positive integers A , B A, B and C C . Let x = x 1 2 × x 2 x=x_1 ^2 \times x_2 , where x 2 x_2 is not divisible by the square of any prime. Similarly, we let y = y 1 2 × y 2 y = y_1^2 \times y_2 and z = z 1 2 × z 2 z = z_1^2\times z_2 . Then x y = x 1 2 y 1 2 x 2 y 2 = A 2 xy = x_1^2y_1^2x_2y_2 = A^2 , y z = y 1 2 z 1 2 y 2 z 2 yz = y_1 ^2 z_1 ^2 y_2z_2 and x z = x 1 2 z 1 2 x 2 z 2 = C 2 xz = x_1^2z_1^2x_2z_2 = C^2 . Since x 2 x_2 , y 2 y_2 and z 2 z_2 are not divisible by the square of any prime they must all be equal. Thus ( x , y , z ) = ( x 1 2 d , y 1 2 d , ( x 1 + y 1 ) 2 d ) (x, y, z) =\left( x_1 ^2 d, y_1^2 d, (x_1+y_1)^2 d \right) , where d d is not divisible by the square of any prime.

For d = 1 d=1 , 5 z = x 1 + y 1 5 \geq \sqrt{z} = x_1+y_1 . This yields ( x , y , z ) = ( 1 , 1 , 4 ) (x,y,z) = (1,1,4) , ( 1 , 4 , 9 ) (1,4,9) , ( 1 , 9 , 16 ) (1,9,16) , ( 1 , 16 , 25 ) (1,16,25) , ( 4 , 1 , 9 ) (4,1,9) , ( 4 , 4 , 16 ) (4,4,16) , ( 4 , 9 , 25 ) (4,9,25) , ( 9 , 1 , 16 ) (9,1,16) , ( 9 , 4 , 25 ) (9,4,25) , ( 16 , 1 , 25 ) (16,1,25) for a total of 10 solutions.

For d = 2 d=2 , 5 z = 2 x 1 + 2 y 1 4 > x 1 + y 1 5 \geq \sqrt{z} = \sqrt{2} x_1+ \sqrt{2} y_1 \Rightarrow 4 > x_1 + y_1 . This yields ( 2 , 2 , 8 ) , ( 2 , 8 , 18 ) , ( 8 , 2 , 18 ) (2, 2, 8), (2, 8, 18), (8, 2, 18) for a total of 3 solutions.

For d = 3 d=3 , 5 z = 3 x 1 + 3 y 1 3 > x 1 + y 1 5 \geq \sqrt{z} = \sqrt{3} x_1 + \sqrt{3} y_1 \Rightarrow 3 > x_1 + y_1 . This yields ( 3 , 3 , 12 ) (3, 3, 12) as the only solution.

( d = 4 d=4 is ignored since d d is not divisible by the square of any prime.)

For d = 5 d=5 , 5 z = 5 x 1 + 5 y 1 3 > x 1 + y 1 5 \geq \sqrt{z} = \sqrt{5} x_1 + \sqrt{5} y_1 \Rightarrow 3 > x_1 + y_1 . This yields ( 5 , 5 , 20 ) (5, 5, 20) as the only solution.

For d = 6 d =6 , 5 z = 6 x 1 + 6 y 1 3 > x 1 + y 1 5 \geq \sqrt{z} = \sqrt{6} x_1 + \sqrt{6} y_1 \Rightarrow 3 > x_1 + y_1 . This yields ( 6 , 6 , 24 ) (6, 6, 24) as the only solution.

For d 7 d\geq 7 , 5 z = 7 x 1 + 7 y 1 5 \geq \sqrt{z} = \sqrt{7} x_1 + \sqrt{7} y_1 . Since 6.25 = 2.5 \sqrt{6.25}=2.5 , we know that 5 7 < 2 \frac {5}{\sqrt{7}} < 2 . Thus 2 > x 1 + y 1 2 > x_1 + y_1 . Since x 1 1 x_1 \geq 1 and y 1 1 y_1\geq 1 , we have no further solutions.

Thus, the total number of solutions is 10 + 3 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 16 10+3+1+1+1 = 16 .

Billy Sugiarto
Sep 29, 2015

We know that x + y = z \sqrt{x} + \sqrt{y} = \sqrt{z} with ( x , y , z ) [ 1 , 25 ] (x, y, z) \in [1, 25] .

Therefore, z ( x + y ) = 2 x y z - (x+y) = 2\sqrt{xy} .

It is obvious that z - (x+y) is a positive integer. Therefore x y N 2 xy \in N^{2} with ( x + y ) < 25 (x+y) < 25 .

Let S S = { 1 , 4 , 9 , 16 , 25 , 36 1, 4, 9, 16, 25, 36 }, x y S xy \in S .

By looking at the 6 cases we got

( x , y ) (x,y) = { ( 1 , 1 ) , ( 1 , 4 ) , ( 2 , 2 ) , ( 1 , 9 ) , ( 3 , 3 ) , ( 1 , 16 ) , ( 2 , 8 ) , ( 4 , 4 ) , ( 5 , 5 ) , ( 4 , 9 ) , ( 6 , 6 ) (1, 1), (1, 4), (2, 2), (1, 9), (3, 3), (1, 16), (2, 8), (4, 4), (5, 5), (4, 9), (6, 6) } and its permutations.

Therefore we got 16 positive integers ( x , y , z ) (x, y, z) satisfying the above equality.

Hans Ardisa
May 20, 2014

i get the answer by record it one by one

1,1,4 1,4,9 4,1,9 2,2,8 1,9,16 9,1,16 3,3,12 1,16,25 16,1,25 2,8,18 8,2,18 4,4,16 5,5,20 4,9,25 9,4,25 6,6,24

Possibly computer-assisted. Definitely, no explanations given, just the answer.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago

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