That's something interesting!

a ! b ! = a ! + b ! \large a!b! = a! + b!

If a a and b b are positive integers that satisfy the equation above, find a + b a + b .


The answer is 4.

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13 solutions

Sujoy Roy
Feb 1, 2015

a ! b ! = a ! + b ! a!b!=a!+b! or, a ! b ! a ! b ! + 1 = 1 a!b!-a!-b!+1=1 or, ( a ! 1 ) ( b ! 1 ) = 1 (a!-1)(b!-1)=1 .

So, a ! 1 = b ! 1 = 1 a!-1=b!-1=1 or, a ! = b ! = 2 a!=b!=2 or, a = b = 2 a=b=2

or, a + b = 4 a+b=\boxed{4}

Note: There are 2 integer solutions to x y = 1 xy = 1 , which are x = y = 1 x = y = 1 and x = y = 1 x = y = -1 .

Perhaps state that n ! 1 0 n! - 1 \geq 0 , and hence the second case cannot be true?

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 4 months ago

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sir there is a possiblity of 1! and 0!

Kamesh Kanniappan - 6 years, 4 months ago

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No, don't get deceived by the fact that 0!=1

the way he solved it reached the conclusion of x=y ; so 0 and 1 definitely won't be considered as they are 2 different numbers

Ahmed Obaiedallah - 5 years, 11 months ago

Excellent. Really creative.Upvoted :) :) :)

Nihar Mahajan - 6 years, 4 months ago

In line 1 u say dat (a!-1)(b!-1)=1, then (a!-1)=1/(b!-1)............... How do u say dat a!-1=b!-1

Nischith TR - 6 years, 4 months ago

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Yes how is it possible

Diptangshu Panda - 5 years, 5 months ago

nagay kmu minangu...

Kim Aiver Devera - 5 years, 10 months ago

Guys 0! and 1! are same they are equal to 1 :P you cant remove factorial if u have n! =1 as it has two values of n=0 and n=1

Kamesh Kanniappan - 5 years, 9 months ago

If we suppose a!=m and b!=n, then we are to find integer solution to the equation mn=m+n. We know the only integer solution to this equation is m=n=2. As 2 is the factorial of 2, our solution is 2+2=4.

Md Islam - 4 years, 11 months ago

Nice! I figured that one should consider a more simpler case: CD=C + D We all know that the only case of this that doesn’t involve zeroes is (2,2). So knowing this, we need C and D to be equal to 2. This is perfect since 2 is its own factorial, thus a,b=2, and a+b=4.

Mike Catlipilla - 1 year, 9 months ago

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Do you know how to show that (2,2) is the only integer, non-zero solution?

Note: There are other non-integer solutions, like ( 3 , 1 1 2 ) (3, 1 \frac{1}{2} ) .

Calvin Lin Staff - 1 year, 9 months ago

Awesome Solution...!!!

Nitish Kumar - 6 years, 4 months ago

Sujoy Roy: please explain how a!=b!=2 become a=b=2? thanks.

Jonathan Narvato - 6 years, 4 months ago

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If a ! = 2 a! = 2 , what is the value of a a ?

Calvin Lin Staff - 6 years, 4 months ago

Can anybody tell me what does '!' mean???????????????????

Yugansh Shrivastava - 6 years, 4 months ago

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'!' is called factorial function. click here

Nihar Mahajan - 6 years, 4 months ago
Nihar Mahajan
Feb 1, 2015

If we divide through by b ! \huge b! we get,

a ! = a ! b ! + 1 \huge a! = \frac {a!}{b!} + 1

As LHS is integer,

a ! b ! \huge\frac {a!}{b!} must be integer, and it follows that b ! a ! \huge b! \leq a!

If, instead, we divide through by a ! \huge a! we get,

b ! = 1 + b ! a ! \huge b! = 1 + \frac {b!}{a!} , and in the same way we deduce that a ! b ! \huge a! \leq b!

Hence a ! = b ! \huge a! = b! , giving the unique solution a ! = 2 , a = b = 2 \huge a! = 2 , a = b = 2

Alternatively, divide the original equation by a ! b ! \huge a!b! which gives,

1 = 1 ! b ! + 1 ! a ! \huge 1 = \frac {1!}{b!} + \frac {1!}{a!}

Clearly , a ! = b ! = 2 \huge a! =b! = 2

T h u s , a + b = 2 + 2 = 4 : ) \huge Thus, a + b = 2 + 2 = \boxed{4} :)

Very elegantly done!!

Aran Pasupathy - 6 years, 4 months ago

Wonderful!

Nivesh Vyas - 5 years, 8 months ago

Nihar your solutions are really worth reading..................many a times i scroll the screen DOWN to just check whether u have posted any solution or not....................CHEERS BRO............+1 KEEP IT UP

Abhisek Mohanty - 4 years, 11 months ago

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Thank you very much! :)

Nihar Mahajan - 4 years, 11 months ago

Dividing both sides of the original equation by a!b! provides the quickest and simplest solution .

John Conway - 4 years, 11 months ago

My compliments for the elegance

Alessandro Cioffi - 3 years, 2 months ago
Mustafa Embaby
Feb 2, 2015
  • a!b! = a! + b! \Rightarrow a!b! - a! = b! \Rightarrow a!(b!-1) = b!
  • Then a ! = b ! b ! 1 a! = \frac {b!}{b! - 1} : a , b , a! , b! are Positive Integers and b ! 1 b! \neq 1
  • \Rightarrow Denominator ( b ! 1 ) = 1 (b! - 1) = 1 \Rightarrow b! = 2 \Rightarrow a! = 2 2 1 \frac {2}{2 - 1} = 2
  • \Rightarrow a = b = 2 \Rightarrow a + b = 2 + 2 = 4 \boxed{4}

How can u say dat b!-1=1

Nischith TR - 6 years, 4 months ago

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\because ( b ! ) (b!) is a positive integer and ( b ! 1 ) 0 (b! - 1)\neq0 \Rightarrow ( b ! 1 ) 1 (b! - 1)\geq1

\because Denominator ( b ! 1 ) (b! - 1) and Numerator ( b ! ) (b!) are two consecutive positive integers and their quotient is a positive integer ( a ! ) (a!) then the only solution is the Denominator ( b ! 1 ) = 1 (b! - 1) = 1 and Numerator ( b ! ) = 2 (b!)= 2

( 2 1 , 3 2 , 4 3 , 5 4 , , n n 1 ) (\frac {2}{1}, \frac {3}{2}, \frac {4}{3}, \frac {5}{4}, \ldots , \frac {n}{n-1}) are not positive integers except 2 1 \frac {2}{1} .


  • Another Proof: a ! = b ! b ! 1 = b ! 1 + 1 b ! 1 = 1 + 1 b ! 1 a! = \frac {b!}{b! - 1} = \frac {b! - 1 + 1}{b! - 1} = 1 + \frac {1}{b! - 1}

\because L.H.S ( a ! ) (a!) is a positive integer \therefore R.H.S ( 1 + 1 b ! 1 ) (1 + \frac {1}{b! - 1}) is also a positive integer.

\because 1 b ! 1 0 \frac {1}{b! - 1}\neq0 \Rightarrow 1 b ! 1 1 \frac {1}{b! - 1}\geq1 \Rightarrow ( b ! 1 ) 1 (b! - 1)\leq1 and the only positive integer 1 \leq1 is 1 1

\Rightarrow ( b ! 1 ) = 1 (b! - 1) = 1

Mustafa Embaby - 6 years, 4 months ago
Andrea Palma
Mar 13, 2015

a ! b ! a ! = b ! a! b! - a! = b! so a ! ( b ! 1 ) = b ! a! (b! - 1) = b!

it means that b ! 1 b! - 1 divides its consecutive b ! b! . But two consecutive numbers are alwais coprime (its greates common divisor is 1) and this imply that ( b ! 1 ) (b! -1) is 1. So b ! = 2 b! = 2 and the only solution of the latter is b = 2 b=2 .

We can change the role of a a and b b since the initial equation is symmetric and with the same calculations and resoning we get a = 2 a = 2 .

So a + b = 4 a + b = 4 .

Kenny Chung
Feb 14, 2016

What is the point of using a & b if the number is the same for each? Seems like a bad question to me.

Because you don't know they're same at first. If the question is square(a!)=2(a!) it would be even worse.

ZH X - 1 month, 4 weeks ago
Ishan Sheth
Aug 23, 2016

trial and error...both of the numbers must be small which i found intuitively..... put a =b =1...doesnt work....a=b=2...works!! voila!! not a perfect method to solve though.

2+2=4% 2-1*39

Aaron struble - 1 year, 6 months ago
Eric Christianson
Dec 10, 2015

I just know the only number were a+b=a×b is 2+2=2×2

For every x non zero real, (1+x) and (1 + x^(-1)) are such that their product equals their sum. They are both integers iff x=1 or -1.

Andrea Palma - 1 year, 5 months ago
David Molano
Oct 11, 2015

The diofantine equation x + y = x y x+y=xy only has two nonnegative solutions, x = y = 0 x=y=0 and x = y = 2 x=y=2 , as I and other people show here (I'm the asker).

So a ! = b ! = 0 a!=b!=0 or a ! = b ! = 2 a!=b!=2 . The former is impossible, so a ! = b ! = 2 a!=b!=2 thus a = b = 2 a=b=2 so a + b = 4 a+b=4 .

a!b! =a!+b! a!b! - a!-b! =0 a!(b-1)-b!=0 a!b!-b!=b! a!b! = 2b! a! =2 b!=2 a=2 b=2

a!b!=a!+b! => b! = a!/b! +1 => b! = a a-1 a-2...a-b +1 ----(1) any factorial other than 0 and 1 has to be even but if b is either 0 or 1 then there exits no +ve or 0 valued 'a' satisfying (1) or a a-1 a-2 ....a-b has to be odd which is not possible => hence there are 2 cases case 1: a = b+1 b! = a*b!/b! +1 => b! = a +1 => b! = b +1 +1 => b = b! -2 no such b exists. case 2: a = b => b! = 1+1 => b! = 2 => b =2 =a this satisfies all equations => a + b =4

Pushan Paul
May 24, 2016

The only possible number that has the same of value of its sum and product is 2.

광빈 장
Mar 8, 2016

2!+2!=2!2!

I don't understand your solution

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