The area is tight, right?

Geometry Level 1

A triangle is made by connecting three sticks of lengths 8, 15, and 17.

Can you replace the stick of length 17 with one of a different length in order to make the area greater ?

Yes No

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8 solutions

Michael Mendrin
Oct 8, 2018

8 , 15 , 17 8, 15, 17 makes a right angle triangle, which has the maximum possible altitude of 8 8 given its base of 15 15 .

In the question it's not mentioned that it's a right angle...

Ricardo Nabeiro - 2 years, 8 months ago

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A quick brush up on The Pythagorean Theorem could help you

Mohammad Farhat - 2 years, 8 months ago

While it is true that I didn't mention that 8-15-17 is a right angle triangle, one can easily verify that to be true via Pythagorean theorem .

Pi Han Goh - 2 years, 8 months ago

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@Ricardo Nabeiro , You there?

Mohammad Farhat - 2 years, 8 months ago

please,correct me if i'm wrong .... let's think as if we inscribed it in a circle then the angle of abc = 90 which means that the yellow stick will be bigger than it was so i believe the area could be grater .

fida awida - 2 years, 7 months ago

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The diagram's angles are not to scale; an angle already IS 90 degrees!

Adrian Self - 2 years, 5 months ago
David Vreken
Oct 14, 2018

Since 8 2 + 1 5 2 = 1 7 2 8^2 + 15^2 = 17^2 , by the converse of Pythagorean's Theorem, the first triangle is a right triangle where the angle between the 8 8 and 15 15 sticks is a right angle, so its area is A 1 = 1 2 8 15 = 60 A_1 = \frac{1}{2} \cdot 8 \cdot 15 = 60 .

Replacing the 17 17 stick with a different length would cause the angle x x between the 8 8 and 15 15 sticks to no longer be a right angle, and so its area is A 2 = 1 2 8 15 sin x = 60 sin x A_2 = \frac{1}{2} \cdot 8 \cdot 15 \sin x = 60 \sin x . Since 0 < x < 180 ° 0 < x < 180° and x 90 ° x \neq 90° , sin x < 1 \sin x < 1 , and so 60 sin x < 60 60 \sin x < 60 , or A 2 < A 1 A_2 < A_1 .

Therefore, you cannot replace the stick of length 17 17 with one of a different length in order to make the area greater.

respect . thanks to u i learned why my hypothesis is wrong

fida awida - 2 years, 7 months ago
Chew-Seong Cheong
Oct 14, 2018

Area of a triangle is given by A = a b sin θ 2 A=\dfrac {ab\sin \theta}2 , where θ \theta is the measure of angle between sides of lengths a a and b b . Fixing a = 15 a=15 , b = 8 b=8 and θ \theta between the two sides. Then A A is maximum when sin θ = 1 \sin \theta = 1 , that is θ = 9 0 \theta = 90^\circ . We note that θ = 9 0 \theta = 90^\circ when the third side c = 17 c=17 .

Therefore, no , we cannot replace the stick of length 17 with one of a different length to make the area greater.

Oi! Question did not say anything about it having to stay a right angled triangle??

Joe Kelly - 2 years, 7 months ago

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No, just replacing the stick of length 17.

Chew-Seong Cheong - 2 years, 7 months ago

The author and the problem did not need to state that the triangle was already a right triangle. . It was your job to discover that fact.

A Former Brilliant Member - 2 years, 5 months ago
Abraham Zhang
Oct 14, 2018

Since 1 7 2 = 8 2 + 1 5 2 17^2=8^2+15^2 , θ = 9 0 \theta=90^\circ .
Replacing the stick with length 17 17 only changes θ \theta , but the area equals 8 15 sin θ 2 \frac{8\cdot15\sin\theta}2 , which is maximum at θ = 9 0 \theta=90^\circ .

Gerhard Joos
Oct 17, 2018

Solving as optimization problem utilizing Heron's formula

F = s ( s a ) ( s b ) ( s c ) F = \sqrt{s (s-a) (s-b) (s-c)} with s = a + b + c 2 s = \frac{a+b+c}{2}

Lets state that a is the variable side length and b and c are constant, b = 15 b=15 and c = 8 c=8 .

F = 1 4 ( a + ( b + c ) ) ( a + ( b + c ) ) ( a + ( b c ) ) ( a ( b c ) ) = 1 4 ( a + d ) ( a d ) ( a + e ) ( a e ) F = \frac{1}{4} \sqrt{(a+ (b+c)) (-a+ (b+c))(a+ (b-c))(a- (b-c))} = \frac{1}{4} \sqrt{-(a+ d) (a-d)(a+ e)(a- e)} with d = b + c d=b+c and e = b c e=b-c

F = 1 4 ( a 2 d 2 ) ( a 2 e 2 ) = 1 4 a 4 + a 2 ( d 2 + e 2 ) d 2 e 2 ) = 1 4 x 2 + x ( d 2 + e 2 ) d 2 e 2 ) F= \frac{1}{4} \sqrt{-(a^2 - d^2) (a^2 - e^2)} = \frac{1}{4} \sqrt{-a^4 + a^2 (d^2+e^2) - d^2 e^2)} = \frac{1}{4} \sqrt{-x^2 + x (d^2+e^2) - d^2 e^2)} with x = a 2 x=a^2

F x = 1 8 2 x + d 2 e 2 F \frac{\partial F}{\partial x} = \frac{1}{8} \frac{-2 x + d^2 e^2}{F}

F x = 0 \frac{\partial F}{\partial x} = 0 for maximum area F x = d 2 + e 2 2 a = d 2 + e 2 2 F \rightarrow x = \frac{d^2+e^2}{2} \rightarrow a = \sqrt{\frac{d^2+e^2}{2} } (only positive real solutions of interest).

d = 23 , e = 7 a = 2 3 2 + 7 2 2 = 289 = 17 d=23, e = 7 \rightarrow a = \sqrt{\frac{23^2+7^2}{2} } = \sqrt{289} = 17 , therefore no greater area possible

Katie St John
Oct 15, 2018

The area of any triangle can be calculated through 1 2 \frac{1}{2} a b ab s i n C sinC . As the sides a a and b b are set (as 15 15 and 8 8 ) in order to increase the area, we must increase the value of s i n C sinC .

(In the following calculations, side a a represents the 15 unit side, side b b represents the 8 unit side, and side c c represents the 17 unit side. Angle C C is the angle found directly opposite side c c )

To calculate what sin C C is, we must first calculate what the angle C C is. We can use the law of cosines to do this: c o s C = cosC= a 2 + b 2 c 2 2 a b \frac{a^2+b^2 - c^2}{2ab} Substituting in the variables, this gives us c o s C = cosC= 1 5 2 + 8 2 1 7 2 2 X 15 X 8 \frac{15^2+8^2 - 17^2}{2X15X8} which gives a result of 0 0

To calculate the angle C C from c o s C cosC we must use inverse c o s cos : c o s 0 = 90 cos^-0=90 therefore C = 90 C = 90

Since s i n 90 = 1 sin90 = 1 and 1 1 is the maximum value of the function of s i n sin , we can therefore conclude that no changes can be made to side c c to increase the area of the triangle.

Kelly Jorgensen
Oct 14, 2018

Nope. If you increase the length of one side you have to change the length of at least one other side.

You can still change the angle. So your solution is flawed

Mohammad Farhat - 2 years, 8 months ago

Nope. I could construct a triangle of side lengths 8-15-16.

Pi Han Goh - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Actually, the diagram made me thing of an isosceles triangle, which would be 8-15-15. ;-)

C . - 2 years, 7 months ago
Sachin Rawat
Oct 15, 2018

The area of the triangle is half of the area of the parallelogram. Regardless of what the third side is, a parallelogram can be made by drawing lines parallel to those of length 8 and 15, and the area of the triangle would always be 60.

That will only work for that ONE value of the 3rd side that you're looking at. Changing it will increase or decrease the angle between the sides that you're keeping at a fixed length, skewing the parallelogram to get a different area.

C . - 2 years, 7 months ago

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