The distance to Abbey Road?

Four beetles, call them John, Paul, George, and Ringo, start off at the corners of a square room 2 meters on a side. Looking down into the room from above, John is in the upper left, Paul in the upper right, George in the lower right, and Ringo in the lower left. The beetles start crawling towards the next beetle, i.e. John crawls directly at Paul, Paul crawls directly at George, George crawls directly at Ringo, and Ringo crawls directly at John. Each beetle's speed is 0.01 m/s 0.01~\mbox{m/s} .

How far has one beetle traveled in meters when all the beetles meet in the middle?


The answer is 2.

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10 solutions

Josh Silverman Staff
Aug 12, 2013

This problem can be solved without calculation:

Due to the symmetry of the problem, the angles between beetles stay constant throughout the entire process. Therefore, the path of each beetle remains at right angles to the path of the neighboring beetles.

Given these perpendicular trajectories, each beetle is always traveling directly toward its target beetle while its target beetle is performing no motion to either increase or decrease the gulf between them (as it is always moving perpendicularly).

Then, each beetle simply traverses the original distance which separated them from the next beetle; the length of the spiral path is equal to the length of a side of the original square, 2 m . \SI{2}{\meter}.

Moderator note:

Yum...I love clever arguments. I'll have to put the beetles on the surface of a sphere next time, give more of a challenge :)

Frankly speaking, I don't think this problem is worth 300 points on level 5 from any angle, whatever the approach might be. As for Josh S.'s argument, its really a clever one.

Arnab Animesh Das - 7 years, 10 months ago

For simplicity let's say that the sphere is of radius sqrt2, to keep the beetles 2m apart. Shouldn't they then simply move along the same 2m path in the horizontal plane while gaining sqrt2m in height, resulting in a path length of sqrt6 meters?

JL Ponts - 4 years, 6 months ago

This problem should not be among "mechanics", it should be in mathematics (parametric curve). "Yum...I love clever arguments." Suppose someone has not this clever argument, he will pass very long to calculate each d(xA) (in function of t) according to (xB-xA), enter in a spreadsheet (Excel or other) to have coordinate at each instant, to get a (false) result. This problem is not simple - for the time it is rated only level 3.

Leonblum Iznotded - 2 years, 10 months ago

Please let me know if my argument is correct or not. At any point in time, the beetles' velocity along the middle is V cos ( π / 4 ) = V 2 . V \cos (\pi/4)= \frac {V}{\sqrt 2}.
Now since Displacement = Velocity × Time \text{Displacement = Velocity × Time} , and Distance = Speed × Time \text{Distance = Speed × Time} , it follows that Distance = Speed Velocity × Displacement \text{Distance} = \dfrac {\text{Speed}}{\text{Velocity}} \text{× Displacement} which implies Distance = V V 2 2 = 2 m \text{Distance} = \dfrac {V}{\frac {V}{\sqrt 2}} \cdot \sqrt 2 = 2\text{m} .

Harsh Poonia - 2 years, 3 months ago

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You are already assuming that time taken is same in case of displaced and distance

Apoorva Singal - 7 months ago
Kevin Lei
May 20, 2014

Let s be the distance between John and Paul, and v = 0.01m/s. After a short time dt, the new distance between them is s' = sqrt((s-v dt)^2+(v dt)^2). s' = s+ds, so substituting and squaring both sides gives us (s+ds)^2 = (s-v dt)^2+(v dt)^2 2s ds+(ds)^2 = -2sv dt+2 v^2 (dt)^2 ds/dt = (-2sv+dt)/(2s+ds) as dt approaches 0, ds approaches 0 too, so ds/dt = -v. In other words, the rate that the beetles are approaching each other is the rate that they crawl, so the answer is 2m.

Nishanth Hegde
Aug 12, 2013

Click HERE for a diagram of how they meet at the centre.

Let's consider a n n -sided regular polygon, each of side length d d units Angle subtended at the centre of the polygon by any two adjacent vertices is 2 π n \frac{2 \pi}{n} . By symmetry centre does not change. Let the beetles be A , B , C N A, B, C \ldots N and each beetle is crawling towards the next beetle with a constant velocity v v units

relative velocity of A A w.r.t B B

= v v cos 2 π n v - v \cos \frac{2 \pi}{n}

= v [ 1 cos 2 π n ] v[1 - \cos \frac{2 \pi}{n}]

= 2 v sin 2 π n 2v \sin^{2} \frac{\pi}{n}

Time required to meet at the centre is t t units = Relative distance Relative velocity \frac{\text{Relative distance}}{\text{Relative velocity}}

But the Relative distance \text{Relative distance} will be = d d

Hence, time required to meet at the centre t = d 2 v s i n 2 π n t = \frac{d}{2vsin^{2} \frac{\pi}{n}}

In this problem, n = 4 n=4 \Rightarrow t = d v t = \frac{d}{v} 1 \ldots \ldots 1

Suppose the distance travelled in reaching the centre is x x^{\prime} units, t = x v x = d = 2 t= x^{\prime}v \Rightarrow x^{\prime} = d = 2 (by equating the two equations of time.)

oops..it had to be t = x v t = \frac{x^{\prime}}{v} in the last line.

Nishanth Hegde - 7 years, 10 months ago

Brilliant... Once solved for N=4, it is interesting to see the curves for N=3, N=5... Thank you for this job.

Leonblum Iznotded - 2 years, 10 months ago
Laurent Shorts
Mar 1, 2016

By symmetry, the beetles will always make a square and the center of those squares will always be the same. Therefore, the angle between their direction (toward another beetle) and the direction to the center is always 45 ° 45° .

That means the radial speed (speed toward the center) is constant and is v r = 0.01 cos ( 45 ° ) = 0.01 2 v_r=0.01·\cos(45°)=\frac{0.01}{\sqrt{2}} m/s.

The distance from the starting point and the center is d = 2 d=\sqrt{2}\, m. Approaching it at 0.01 2 \frac{0.01}{\sqrt{2}}\, m/s, that gives a total time t = d v r = 200 t=\frac{d}{v_r}=200\, s.

Total distance crawled is v t = 0.01 200 = 2 v·t=0.01·200=2\, m.

How can you divide diagonal distance by radial velocity??

Apoorva Singal - 7 months ago

As the center is on the diagonal, the radial velocity is the velocity along that diagonal.

Laurent Shorts - 3 months ago
Thomas Beuman
Aug 14, 2013

Let s s be the distance traveled by the beetle John ( J J ) and r ( s ) r(s) its distance to the middle of the room M M , as a function of s s . John follows beetle Paul ( P P ). By symmetry, its distance to the M M is the same, M P = M J = r ( s ) |MP| = |MJ| = r(s) . Furthermore, the angle J M P \angle JMP is always straight.

Now let John take an infinitesimal step d s ds toward Paul. This step is along the line J P JP , and thus makes a 4 5 45^\circ angle with J M JM . We can easily establish that the corresponding change in r r is

d r = d s cos 4 5 = d s 2 dr = -ds \cos 45^\circ = -\frac{ds}{\sqrt2}

Upon integration, we find

r ( s ) = d r = r 0 + 0 s d s 2 = 2 m s 2 r(s) = \int dr = r_0 + \int_0^s -\frac{ds}{\sqrt2} = \sqrt2 \,\mathrm{m} - \frac{s}{\sqrt2}

Therefore, John reaches the middle ( r ( s ) = 0 r(s)=0 ) for s = 2 m s = \boxed{2\,\mathrm{m}}

To get the complete picture, let me derive what the path looks like. Let ϕ \phi be the angle that the line M J MJ makes with the line M J MJ as it was at s = 0 s=0 . From the same geometrical picture we can establish the relation

r d ϕ = d s sin 4 5 = d s 2 r\,d\phi = ds \sin 45^\circ = \frac{ds}{\sqrt2}

from which we can deduce d ϕ = d r r d\phi = -\frac{dr}{r} , and from that ϕ ( r ) = ln r 0 r \phi(r) = \ln \frac{r_0}{r} , or r ( ϕ ) = r 0 e ϕ r(\phi) = r_0 e^{-\phi} (note that ϕ \phi runs from zero to infinity). It's thus a logarithmic spiral.

By symmetry, we can conclude that the center of the quadrilateral at any point of time before the beetles converge will stay fixed, and the beetles will converge at the center of the quadrilateral. Let O O be the center of the quadrilateral. Initially, let J R JR be the distance between John and Ringo (we can consider any two consecutive beetles). Let M M be the midpoint of J R JR . Note that J R JR subtends an angle p i 2 \frac{pi}{2} at O O . So M M subtends an angle p i 4 \frac{pi}{4} at O O . Now consider the radial component of the velocity of a beetle. Let P P be a point on J R JR and Q Q on O R OR , such that points P P and Q Q describe the trajectory of John. The radial component of the velocity will be then V sin p i 4 = V 2 V \sin \frac{pi}{4} = \frac{V}{\sqrt{2}} . From the reference frame of O O , the beetles will approach at a straight line with velocity V 2 \frac{V}{\sqrt{2}} (tangential velocity omitted). The time needed to converge will then be K V sin π 4 = S V ( 1 cos p i 2 ) = S T \frac{K}{V \sin \frac{\pi}{4}} = \frac{S}{V(1-\cos \frac{pi}{2})} = \frac{S}{T} (where K K is the radius of the polygon and S = A B S= AB ). Then, the total distance covered by each beetle will simply be V T = S = 2 m e t e r VT= S= 2 \ meter . Note that the final answer is independent of the velocity of each beetle. I don't know why it was provided in the question.

Moderator note:

The velocity was provided because sometimes we give you too much or irrelevant information. After all, that's part of life and problem solving.

If M M is a point how can it subtend an angle?

Daniel Pérez - 7 years, 10 months ago

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Sorry I meant the line segment M R MR .

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 10 months ago

Isn't it S V \frac{S}{V} ? 5th line from below

Clara Heidi - 7 years, 10 months ago

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Yes indeed, another typo. Thanks for pointing out. I really got to be careful when writing solutions. :(

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 10 months ago

Reply to Challenge Master note
Yes that is true. :)
Sir is there any starting approach for the problem if the scenario is no longer symmetric, i.e the beetles have different velocities? I want to generalize this problem for n n beetles on a regular n g o n n-gon each approaching the next, the velocity of the i t h i_{th} beetle being a i a_i (the a i a_i s need not be equal).

Sreejato Bhattacharya - 7 years, 10 months ago
Joe Chacko
Jun 12, 2018

Intuitively, it should be clear that we don't need the speed to solve this, only the fact that they are all travelling at the same speed.

BONUS: how many degrees of rotation about the centre does each beetle completes before they meet? As with the original problem (see @Josh Silverman 's solution), no calculation is required for the answer, only logical reasoning.

Charlie Hunt
Dec 28, 2016

its simple! just use Pythagorean theorem. we know that the room is a SQUARE with the sides all being 2m long. we know we only need 2 beetles that are opposite and forget about the other 2. we split the room into a diagonal half to form a right angled triangle. Pythagorean theorem helps use to find the hypotenuse's length in meters. we need to know that both sides are 2m. then we square both sides. in this case 2 X 2 for one side and 2 X 2 for the other leaving both answers to be 4. we then add the two answers together and square root the sum leaving you with the final answer of 2.

Jaivir Singh
Apr 28, 2014

TAKE RELATIVE VELOCITY OF ONE WITH RESPECT TO OTHER. THEN USE RELATIVE DISTANCE / RELATIVE SPEED TO CALCULATE TIME. THEN USE SPEED X TIME TO CALCULATE DISTANCE TRAVELED

Kevin Fei
Aug 13, 2013

At every moment, the four beetles will be in a square. The square will continually strink as bugs move inward. We look at one side of the square and we see something like this:

O>>>----------X

When beetle O meets beetle X, all beetles must've met in the middle by symmetry. That means O traveled along the length of one side of the square, traveling 2 m 2 m .

The path of the beetles can be found with polar coordinates, but that is unnecessary to obtain this distance.

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