The Man with the Golden Gun

How effective are gold bullets compared to lead bullets of the same shape and size?

Assume that the bullets do not change shape and that the bullets leave the gun at the same velocity.

Gold bullets would have a greater impact depth Lead bullets would have a greater impact depth There'd be no difference in their performance

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8 solutions

Arjen Vreugdenhil
Dec 12, 2017

Gold has a significantly greater density than lead (by about 50%). A golden bullet has therefore more kinetic energy than a lead bullet moving at the same speed.

(The reason why lead is often used is that lead is denser than most metals, yet also affordable.)

this is a stupid question. effective at what? without a stated goal there can be no answer.

Philip Kalisman - 3 years, 5 months ago

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I agree with all three replies here. As there is not enough information given to suggest an accurate answer. The gold bullet of the same shape and size would be nearly 50% heavier, yet there is no mention as to what propells the bullet. How much more powder would the gold bullet require to outperform the lighter lead bullet? Given that all states being equal, the lead bullet would penetrate deeper, and attain a greater maximum velocity, therefore it would transfer much more energy! Just assuming that the bullets are the same shape and size, and do not distort either upon passing through a rifled barrel, or upon impacting the target to which the penetration depth is querried! Too much to assume which was not stated to answer this question properly. I would suggest that "Brilliant" should offer write-in blanks to suggest an answer to which hasn't been thought. Just my two-cents! And I am correct! ;^)

Mark Morningstar - 3 years, 5 months ago

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Addendum: There was no mention as to which form of Gold (as in jewelry: yellow, white, rose, or green) with contrabutions arising from the other added elements. If it is only pure gold, then Gold is denser (nearly 75%, not 50%, sorry), which gives a much lower transferred kenetic energy since the difference in velocity squared overcomes the different masses by a much higher amount for a similar amount of gun powder used!

Mark Morningstar - 3 years, 5 months ago

since it is heavier, it will not be moving at the same speed!

Jako-Priit Raud - 3 years, 5 months ago

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Yes, but the problem specified that the bullets leave the gun at the same velocity.

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 5 months ago

since quartermaster would be able to acquire more lead bullets than gold per monetary unit, he would be able to outfit a bigger defence force hence lead would be more effective

Jako-Priit Raud - 3 years, 5 months ago

Did you considered that the gun can only exert a spesific amount of force to each bullet, therefore create the same change in momentum for each bullet, meaning that the bullets will not have the same speed but the same momentum, terefore having the same impact? I think that the standard answer is wrong in this question.

Since gold is denser than lead,and the bullets have the same shape and size, the gold bullet will leave the muzzle at a slower velocity. So this is not a valid question.

Mike Holden - 3 years, 5 months ago

Well, you have to consider that the gunpowder level would still be the same. So the gold bullet would move slower, therefore enacting less force on the target.

Gregory Starr - 3 years, 5 months ago

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This is my thought

Jerry McKenzie - 3 years, 5 months ago

I figured whichever had more mass would have more kinetic energy... Then I thought lead was the denser one meh

Orlando Moreno - 3 years, 5 months ago

The answer given is wrong. Penetration is dependent on kinetic energy, which in turn is dependent on the square of velocity and hence acceleration. The force imparted by the bullet’s gunpowder is fixed, so as good is nearly twice the density and so mass, the velocity will be nearly halved, leading to a huge drop in kinetic energy..

Richard Collier - 3 years, 5 months ago

The same, the amount of energy in both bullets is the same, considering only that the impact will be the same, I think a more precise answer will imply another factors like the materials propierties

Fernando Garcia - 3 years, 5 months ago

Also that lead contains a poison that will surely kill the injected if left in it.

Sina Asheghalishahi - 3 years, 5 months ago

I agree but it is a pretty unrealistic question since it is unlikely both would exit the barrel at the same speed. This would require a different propellent energy for the two bullets. A better question might have been to leave the propellent the same fot both and the question then would be about the conservation of energy and no knowledge of the relative density would be required.

Ken Tongue - 3 years, 4 months ago

Actually we can find out the answer easily by comparing the Mohs hardness. The value of gold is 3.5 while lead is 1.5. According to the conservation of momentum, since lead will deform more easier than gold, therefore the impact force of lead will lower than gold. ( Ft=mv+mu)

Wong Tsz Fung - 3 years, 4 months ago

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Momentum has little to do with this. When the bullet hits, its momentum is transferred to its target, independent of it deformation.

Arjen Vreugdenhil - 3 years, 4 months ago

i thought gold was more malleable thus aabsorb more energy

Manurag M - 3 years, 2 months ago

Gold is softer than lead, so it would just become a lump.

Robbie Wang - 1 year, 3 months ago
Markus Michelmann
Dec 18, 2017

Relevant wiki: Momentum - Problem Solving 1D

The impact of a projectile on a target can ideally be considered as an elastic collision of two bodies in which momentum and energy conservation are fulfilled. Of course, in reality, deformation of the bullet and the target material will result in energy being lost, resulting in an inelastic collision, but the argument remains the same.

We assume that a cylindrical bullet with length l l and diameter d d is fired at a wall of thickness t t . If the bullet breaks through the wall, a cylindrical part of the wall with diameter d d must be knocked out. If the mass m 2 m_2 of the wall piece just corresponds to the mass m 1 m_1 of the bullet, the bullet just barely stuck in the wall ( v 1 = 0 v_1' = 0 ), while the wall piece continues to fly with the initial speed of the bullet ( v 2 = v 1 v_2' = v_1 ), since the momentum p = m 1 v 1 = m 2 v 2 p = m_1 v_1 = m_2 v_2' has to be conserved. The wall thickness t t , which is just penetrated by the bullet, can be determined by the condition m 1 = m 2 m_1 = m_2 : m 1 = 1 4 π d 2 l ρ 1 = m 2 = 1 4 π d 2 t ρ 2 t = ρ 1 ρ 2 l \begin{aligned} m_1 = \frac{1}{4} \pi d^2 l \rho_1 &= m_2 = \frac{1}{4} \pi d^2 t \rho_2 \\ \Rightarrow \quad t &= \frac{\rho_1}{\rho_2} l \end{aligned} with the mass densities ρ 1 \rho_1 and ρ 2 \rho_2 of the bullet and the wall,respectivily. The bullet with the greater density ρ 1 \rho_1 can thus penetrate a wall with a greater thickness t t . Since gold ( ρ 19.3 g / cm 3 \rho \approx 19.3 \,\text{g}/\text{cm}^3 ) is heavier than lead ( ρ 11 g / cm 3 \rho \approx 11 \,\text{g}/\text{cm}^3 ), the gold bullet also has a higher penetrating power. If gold was not expensive, it would make sense to use gold ammunition. However, another material with similar density to gold is uranium, which is used in armor piercing ammunition. The main reason why uranium is used is its high density ρ 19.1 g / cm 3 \rho \approx 19.1 \,\text{g}/\text{cm}^3 . (In addition, in the production of uranium ammunition low-level radioactive waste arising from uranium enrichment can be disposed of inexpensively.)

I didn't do any calculation, just logical approach. And have same result. But I have same question for you just with Lead, Gold and Iron bullet..? With yours approach it's best to use gold, than lead and last iron. But I think iron should be better than both gold and lead. Even with assumption of same velocities, which is very theoretical and without it it should be Iron, Lead and Gold as last. Why: I consider Mohs hardness of materials and density as well.

Jiří Bém - 3 years, 5 months ago

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The pistol bullet with the most penetrating power would probably have a shroud made of an extremely hard material, such as steel, and a core with a high mass density, such as lead or gold. The shroud then ensures that the bullet does not deform too much when hitting the target.

Markus Michelmann - 3 years, 5 months ago

The problem with this problem may be that it cannot be expected that the bullets will leave the barrel with the same velocity. That would imply that the gold bullet has a greater explosive force propelling it than does the lead bullet.

Bill Stollar - 3 years, 5 months ago

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The problem explicitly stated, that the velocity is the same for all bullets. However, you're right, of course, that the lead bullets would have to leave the pistol barrel at a higher speed than the gold bullets, if they receive the same kinetic energy when fired. At medium and long distances, however, one must also include the effect of air friction. Hereby, the lead balls are slowed down more then the gold bullets, because they have less inertia. Therefore, at a certain firing distance both projectiles may have the same speed.

Markus Michelmann - 3 years, 5 months ago

The relatively weird velocity parts aside, elasticity DOES change the impact depth. Gold is more elastic and bendable than lead and would, therefore, change its shape mid-collision, resulting in greater surface area and friction, reducing its depth even if not significantly.

When including that fact it becomes impossible to solve without exact shape descriptions. Surely the speed of the whole thing would make it less significant, but not neglectable when talking about a generalized environment.

jacki kay - 3 years, 5 months ago
Utkan Gezer
Dec 31, 2017

Since the two bullets are told to have the same size and shape, a golden bullet will be heavier than the lead one. I believe it is safer to assume that the bullets will be loaded with the same amount of energy when they are fired from the gun, than to assume that they somehow have the same initial speed.

Golden bullet will be slower, therefore its impact will be poorer. Not so! Since it is more massive, it would have the same momentum, therefore the same impact. The difference could come from the materials' properties itself, however, which is why I gave the answer as the golden bullet.

Lead is an easily deformable material, and therefore the bullet would lose its shape very quickly throughout the impact. Without its piercing shape, it wouldn't travel as much as the golden bullet that wouldn't deform so much.

"Assume that the bullets do not change shape and that both bullets leave the gun at the same velocity." Since gold is denser and that they occupy the same volume, it weighs more and therefore carries more momentum than lead.

Michael Yu - 3 years, 5 months ago

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I hadn't noticed that was stated on the question. Thanks for pointing out. Assuming that was the case, the momentum difference would be the explanation for gold beating lead.

I still think that it is unrealistic to assume that they leave the gun at the same speed, however. The golden bullet would require more gun powder for that to be true, and providing more gun powder to the golden bullet gives an unfair advantage to it. But if that's what the question states, then that I should have assumed.

Utkan Gezer - 3 years, 5 months ago

Also, if the assumption were changed to say that they have the same amount of kinetic energy, then they would still not have the same momentum.

Peter Byers - 3 years, 5 months ago

also, since lead is more malleable, it will probably rip a larger wound and lodge inside where gold bullet would penetrate a through hole which would heal quicker therefore the lead would be more effective.

Jako-Priit Raud - 3 years, 5 months ago

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They did say that the bullet doesn't change shape. Also, you're wrong, gold is the most malleable metal.

Steve Zagieboylo - 3 years, 5 months ago

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I thought the "doesn't change shape" was in reference to leaving the gun, not to the impact. :( I guess it's not just my math I need to improve but my reading comprehension as well.

Gustaf Carstam - 3 years, 5 months ago

I thought lead was heavier than gold. Au79 vs Pb82 on the periodic table.

Gavin Downes - 3 years, 5 months ago

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That's the atomic weight. I guess the density of the metals makes gold heavier than lead per cubic unit.

Gustaf Carstam - 3 years, 3 months ago

E = (1/2).m.v² Since the velocity is the same in both cases, the only thing that changes is the mass. Gold has a greater density than steal, therefore the golden bullet is more massive, and the kinetic energy increases.

Yannick P. - 3 years, 2 months ago

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Why are you comparing gold with steel rather than lead?

Gustaf Carstam - 3 years, 1 month ago
Tyler Isaac
Jan 3, 2018

1) Gold is much denser than lead.

2) The problem states that the bullets are the same size (or volume), so the gold bullet has more mass (mass = density x volume)

3) The problem states that the bullets leave with the same velocity, and thus the same acceleration

4) The gold bullet will hit with more force (Force = mass x acceleration)

5) The bullet that hits with more force will take longer to slow down, so the gold bullet will have deeper penetration

Because the problem states the bullets won’t deform, you can assume all of the energy spent in this example is kinetic and not lost to heat/deformation

Laszlo Mihaly
Dec 12, 2017

Gold has a larger density than lead, and therefore a gold bullet of the same size has larger mass. This makes it a more effective bullet, but not in a simple way.

The energy of the bullet is is equal to the work done by the expanding gases created by the gunpowder, W = p d V W=\int p d V . If we treat the gases as an ideal gas, created instantaneously, it does not matter what the mass of the bullet is, the work is the same. For larger mass that means the gold bullet will leave the gun with a smaller velocity. While they start with the same energy, the gold bullet will have more energy when it reaches the target, because it looses less energy to air resistance.

There is another effect: The gunpowder gases cannot be treated as an ideal gas. The burning process is incomplete when the bullet starts to move, and it is ongoing even after the bullet leaves the gun (hence the flash of the gunfire). For a larger mass it takes a longer time to move through the barrel, and therefore there is more time to complete the burning. As a result, the gold bullet will experience higher pressure (at each position, or volume V V ) relative to the lead bullet. As a result its energy will be, in fact, larger.

The relative weight of these two advantages depends on the range to the target.

Note: a gunpowder burning too fast may create so much pressure that the barrel explodes. The "good" gunpowder is tuned so that it maintains a high pressure even as the bullet moves and the volume increases.

Nice explanation. Gunpowder did not come to my mind.

Agnishom Chattopadhyay - 3 years, 5 months ago
Matt Doe
Jan 3, 2018

It's easier to deform lead than gold. Deformation costs energy. The less energy the bullet has the less the impact it's going to make. Since the lead bullet will deform more it will have less impact. Furthermore, the golden bullet will not only lose less kinetic energy at impact, it will have more kinetic energy to begin with.

Gold is denser than lead (MOHS hardness scale).

Ashish Singh
Jan 7, 2018

Actually the gold bullet has greater density as compared to the lead one thus gold one posses more (k.E) as compared to lead thus have a greater impact!

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