Thompson's Lamp

Logic Level 1

Consider a desk lamp with a switch. The switch turns the light in the lamp on and off. Thompson is able to turn this switch on or off in any interval of time, and can turn it on or off ad infinitum in a finite period of time. He always switches the lamp to its opposite position (from on to off, or off to on) and always in half the time it took the previous time. The lamp starts switched on, and the timer starts. One minute later Thompson turns the lamp off, thirty seconds later turns it on, fifteen seconds later it's off again, etc.

The sum of this infinite series is two minutes. Will the lamp be on, or off at the end of that two minutes?


Extra: For your own consideration, would the answer be different if the lamp had started off?

The lamp will be on The lamp will be off None of the other given choices

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10 solutions

This problem was originally created by British philosopher James Thompson, who used it to dispute the possibility of supertasks - i.e. that some sequence with an infinite number of tasks could be completed. He specifically wanted it to have no answer, therefore using proof by contradiction that such a scenario was even possible.

This is, in a way, a Grandi's Series.
i = 0 n ( 1 ) i = 1 1 + 1 1 + 1 1 + . . . \sum _{ i=0 }^{ n }{ { (-1) }^{ i } } = 1-1+1-1+1-1+...
The challenge is Grandi's series both doesn't converge, it is a divergent series, and its sum is 1 / 2 1/2 . But Thompson writes "And this answer does not help us, since we attach no sense here to saying that the lamp is half-on. I take this to mean that there is no established method for deciding what is done when a super-task is done."[1]

[1] Thompson J. Tasks and Super-Tasks. Analysis v.15 n.1 (1954): 1-13

I believe the light would be burned out! Turning a light bulb on and off is quite stressful to it.

Seriously, it's an interesting thought problem.

Steven Perkins - 5 years, 1 month ago

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Yeah but, what ever.

Bách Hữu Trần - 1 year, 2 months ago

Really nice!

Akhash Raja Raam - 5 years, 3 months ago

Why isn't it off? It would burn out or damage the bulb and it will be off!

alex wang - 4 years, 11 months ago

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These problems are designed to not include such variables as those, the only reason why they are in this form is to make them more understandable and relevant.

cliff ford - 2 years, 2 months ago

I'm confused, starting on 1 min off 30 sec on 15 sec off 1/8 min on 1/16 off 1/32 on 1+.5+.025+.125+.0625+.03125=2. The ellapsed time has occurred and the light is on. How could it be neither? It is either off or on. We aren't dealing with Schrödinger's cat, are we

Kyle Al-Rawi - 4 years, 11 months ago

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It's actually an infinite series, not a finite one. 60 sec > 30 sec > 15 sec >7.5 sec > 3.75 sec > 1.875 sec > 0.9375 sec > 0.46875 sec ... The sum of any finite subset of the series is not yet 2 minutes, but we know that the infinite series converges to 2 minutes. It's a paradox because it does converge and because, in real space and time, a lamp is either on or off, but this one could be either.

Christopher Williams - 4 years, 11 months ago

Never mind, entered it wrong on my calculator

Kyle Al-Rawi - 4 years, 11 months ago

This is also similar to zeno's paradox .

Christopher Williams - 4 years, 11 months ago

True or false is true. Light is on. Thats engineering answer.

Jae Yeong Bae - 4 years, 10 months ago

Since we all know there's no real answear, because we cant really finish the two minutes, why Don't we stay with the first position - ON? Everything being even the switch should stay at the same position.

Dimitar Georgiev - 1 year, 7 months ago
Naryan Shukle
May 9, 2016

Though lots of people claim this paradox was started by some mathematician or person using formulae, it in fact originated in Ancient Greece. The original paradox was presented as the following: One man fires an arrow at a target, and another man paints a portrait of the phenomenon at half intervals. When the arrow is halfway to the target, a portrait is painted; after that, a portrait is painted when the arrow is halfway to the target from where the last portrait was painted. This would go on and on. The Greeks concluded that an infinite amount of portraits would be painted. This is the original paradox, and in this app's version it has been modified to have two seperate 'portraits'. The problem can then be rewritten to the following: if every second portrait had a black dot painted in the corner, would the final portrait have a black dot or no ? Here we can clearly see the answer is irrational, since infinity has no end, much less an odd or even value. This is congruent with the version with a light switch; there are infinite switchings of the switch, therefore asking whether the light is on or off is irrational

It will blow up or something like that

Florence Rodillas - 2 years, 2 months ago
Gloria Morse
May 27, 2018

For us to be able to determine the final state of the lamp, we must be able to determine the parity of the number of flips. Parity is only defined for finite numbers, so because there were an infinite number of flips, we cannot determine the final state of the lamp.

Ian Applebaum
Jun 30, 2019

This is a simple situation of a known abstract principle. Mathematically, there are an infinite amount of halves, as division is non-terminating. The answer is unknowable because, in this situation, two minutes can never actually pass.

Mai H
Jun 2, 2020

Engineering answer: The light will break. Mathematical answer: Have you ever tried halving 1, halving the answer and so on? You will never get to zero. In this case, you will never get to 2 minutes.

L Chua
Apr 10, 2020

My thought process was that like achillies paradox, the sum never reachs 2 minutes, so it NEVER ends

Vahgar Anaruhk
May 22, 2021

We know that:

If the thompson toggles the switch even numberof times then the light is switched ON; if the number is odd then the lamp is switched OFF.

Now at t=2 min the number of toggles becomes infinity and the parity of infinity is not defined. Hence the lamp cannot be ON or OFF.

(Its physical meaning has more appropiately described by others)

Tariq Al-Bayer
Aug 27, 2020

As lightbulbs go under a lot of stress when you constantly turn them on and off repeatedly, I think that the lightbulb would be off as it would be burnt out .

Emily Peng
Nov 17, 2019

After a while, the time will approach 2 minutes, but the light will continue to be turned on and off infinitely fast. It will be turned on and off for an infinite number of times, so saying that it will end up odd or even is like saying that infinity is odd or even, indicating that it will end.

K T
Mar 24, 2019

Logically wasn't possible to ever know because if it were to have been half of the time every time it would get to fractions or decimals before hitting the aloted time.

At some point the switching rate will have to exceed the speed of light, but can't. So the last state (off or on) will be the last state before that limitation is reached. A simple computer program or some clever mathematics could provide a definite answer. Any suggestions?

James Schuller - 2 years ago

These sort of problems are called gedankenexperimenten , or thought experiments , and they have been around since the beginning of logical reasoning. Usually the context in which they are used gives a sort of list of parameters to consider in order to solve them or even just try to understand them and/or see if they lead to contradictions. In this case we are not dealing with a physics gedankenexperiment, which would undoubtfully take physical constants as the speed of light or theories such as the Special and General Relativity into account, but with a purely mathemathical one about the convergence of infinite series, and what something like an infinite sum of infinitesimal quantitities adding up to a finite value means, or even just if it makes sense to consider such a thing possible.

So it makes no sense to bother about the real physical world in this case, and things such as the power of the emitting source, the wavelenght and/or frequency of the electromagnetic radiation emitted (visible spectrum?) or even the speed of light are irrelevant and shouldn't be taken into account. I have read comments about people arguing that the light bulb would burn out because of thermal stress, but why should one assume that because we are talking about a lamp then it must have a light bulb? Couldn't it be a LED lamp? Or even just a shutter that blocks/permits the sunlight to enter into a dark room through a small hole? But wait, what if there where two holes and not just one? Then there would be diffraction and interference! And what if the man making this experiment is blind? How could he tell if the light will be on or off at the end? Must it be a human necessarily? We could go on with these sort of irrelevant questions forever, but we would be missing completely the point of this gedankenexperiment.

Anyway, I will still try to answer your question. First, to compute what you call the physical limit imposed by the constraint of the speed of light as the maximum switching rate achievable, you could just measure the lenght of the path of the part of the switch that travels the longest distance (let's assume that it would be its tip, and the path to be a circular arc of radius r = 3 cm r=3\text{ cm} , maybe a quarter of a circle to keep the calculations easy ). So we have:

L p a t h = 2 π r 4 = π 2 3 cm 4.7124 cm = 4.7124 × 1 0 2 m . L_{path}=\frac{2\pi r}{4}=\frac{\pi}{2}3\text{ cm}\approx4.7124\text{ cm}=4.7124\times10^{-2}\text{ m}.

Considering the speed of light to be

c 300000 Km s = 3 × 1 0 8 m s c\approx300000\frac{\text{ Km}}{\text{ s}}=3\times10^8\frac{\text{ m}}{\text{ s}}

the limit time would be

t limit = L path c = 4.7124 × 1 0 2 m 3 × 1 0 8 m s 1.5708 × 1 0 10 s . t_{\text{ limit}}=\frac{L_{\text{path}}}{c}=\frac{4.7124\times10^{-2}\text{ m}}{3\times10^8\frac{\text{ m}}{\text{ s}}}\approx1.5708\times10^{-10}\text{ s}.

Now, considering we start with the light on , and the first interval had a duration of 60 s 60\text{ s} , because at every switch we are halving the duration of the next interval, the duration of the n n -th interval will be

t n = 60 s 2 n . t_{n}=\frac{60\text{ s}}{2^n}.

Imposing t n = 1.5708 × 1 0 10 s t_{n}=1.5708\times10^{-10}\text{ s} and solving for n n yields

n = l o g 60 s 1.5708 × 1 0 10 s l o g 2 551067624480 n=\frac{log\frac{60\text{ s}}{1.5708\times10^{-10}\text{ s}}}{log2}\approx551067624480

and because n n is even , and we started with the light on , not changing the parity of the state will result in the light being still ON .

Ok, now that we have this nonsense answer, let's make some important considerations. I have used a lot of approximations along my calculations (some which were compulsory, as the approximation of π \pi , others because of constraints about our knowledge of the exact value of any physical constant (are they really constant , BTW?), and many others because of the limits imposed by the maximum number of binary digits that the (scientific!) calculator on my old phone is able to use in the calculations, not to mention wrong roundings caused by overflow.

Anyway, beside of all of these technical issues, I was able to determine the final state of the lamp. But know start the real big questions (which I admit I have no idea how to correctly debate!): Special Relativity imposes the speed of light in a vacuum as the limit speed of any phisical phenomenon involving the exchange of subatomic particles, but in the entire universe there are other phenomena that aren't necessarily limited by it (for example, the Universe itself expands at a much greater speed than that of light!). So what if our switch was somehow special and could be moved faster than the speed of light? Maybe we would be in the dark when the lamp is on and viceversa, because the light emitter receives the impulse to switch its state in a time shorter than what it takes for the light it emits to travel to our eyes! Also, when an object (in this case the switch) approaches the speed of light, as General Relativity states, its mass increases: at some point not even the strongest man in the world could move the switch (especially from the down-state to the up-state, against gravity!). Really, we could go on forever!

Please believe me if I say I didn't mean to be sarcastic with this comment (I even tried to figure out the final state of the lamp based on your assumptions); my only purpose was to clarify the importance that we need to give to the right details, especially in gedankenexperimenten, or the whole point they were invented for gets lost into useless considerations about improbable/impossible/unspecified situations.

Michele Polli - 1 year, 10 months ago

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