Three amigos

Margo and Sven are outside in a field, standing right next to each other and talking. We'll put x,y coordinates on the field and measure everything in meters. Ursula, a friend of both Margo and Sven, is also outside walking due north (positive y-direction) at 1 m/s 1~\mbox{m/s} . When Ursula crosses the origin (at t = 0 t=0 ) Margo and Sven (at coordinates ( 100 , 0 ) (100,0) ) notice her and decide to walk over and say hello.

Margo knows a little physics, and so she figures out how she should walk at 2 m/s 2~\mbox{m/s} to meet Ursula in the shortest amount of time. Sven doesn't know any physics, so he just always walks directly towards Ursula, also at 2 m/s 2~\mbox{m/s} , until he catches up to her.

If the time Sven meets Ursula is t s t_s and the time Margo meets Ursula is t m t_m , what is t s t m t_s-t_m in seconds?


The answer is 8.935.

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7 solutions

Nicolae Sapoval
May 20, 2014

Let u = 1 m / s u=1 m/s be Ursula's velocity and v = 2 m / s v=2 m/s Sven and Margo's velocity. First lets compute t m t_m . In order for Margo to meet Ursula in the shortest amount of time, she must move on a straight line towards their pre-calculated point of intersection. Let this point be ( 0 , x ) (0,x) , then x = u t m x=ut_m and Margo will travel the distance of v t m vt_m . Also from the right triangle formed by the points ( 100 , 0 ) , ( 0 , 0 ) (100, 0), (0, 0) and ( 0 , x ) (0,x) , using Pythagorean Theorem we obtain 10 0 2 + ( u t m ) 2 = ( v t m ) 2 100^2+(ut_m)^2=(vt_m)^2 . Now solving a simple equation we get t m = 100 v 2 u 2 57 , 74 s t_m=\frac{100}{\sqrt{v^2-u^2}}\approx 57,74s . Now lets move onto t s t_s . Assume that the distance between Sven and Ursula at a given time is l l . The angle between u \vec{u} and v \vec{v} is φ \varphi and it is time-dependent. We have d l d t = v u cos φ -\frac{dl}{dt}=v-u\cos\varphi . Integrating, we get l = 0 t s ( v u cos φ ) d t l=\int^{t_s}_{0}(v-u\cos\varphi)dt . Also, since Sven and Ursula travel the same distance across the Y Y axis, we get y = u t s = 0 t s u cos φ d t y=ut_s=\int^{t_s}_{0}u\cos\varphi dt . Combining the last two equations, we conclude that t s = 100 v v 2 u 2 66 , 67 s t_s=\frac{100v}{v^2-u^2}\approx 66,67 s .

Therefore the final answer is t s t m = 8 , 93 s t_s-t_m=8,93s .

This problem is a modified version of a problem in I E Irodov's book "Problems in General Physics"

Anant Badal - 3 years ago
Derek Khu
May 20, 2014

Margo takes the shortest possible path, so her path is a straight line towards a point on the y y -axis, where she will meet Ursula. To calculate this point, we can note that after t m t_m seconds, Ursula walked t m t_m metres while Margo walked 2 t m 2t_m metres. Applying Pythagora's theorem, we have t m 2 + 10 0 2 = ( 2 t m ) 2 t_m^2 + 100^2 = (2t_m)^2 . This gives t m = 100 3 t_m = \frac{100}{\sqrt{3}} seconds.

Sven, on the other hand, will walk directly towards Ursula. Let the angle made between their directions of motion be θ \theta . Considering the distance moved in the positive y y -direction, we have 0 t s 2 cos θ d t = t s 0 t s cos θ d t = t s 2 \int_0^{t_s} 2 \cos \theta \,\mathrm{d}t = t_s \Rightarrow \int_0^{t_s} \cos \theta \,\mathrm{d}t = \frac{t_s}{2} . Considering the straight-line distance between them (by considering the velocity of approach from Sven to Ursula), we have 0 t s 2 cos θ d t = 100 2 t s t s 2 = 100 \int_0^{t_s} 2 - \cos \theta \,\mathrm{d}t = 100 \Rightarrow 2t_s - \frac{t_s}{2} = 100 . This gives t s = 200 3 t_s = \frac{200}{3} seconds.

So t s t m = 200 3 100 3 = 8.932 t_s - t_m = \frac{200}{3} - \frac{100}{\sqrt{3}} = 8.932 seconds.

Slick.

David Mattingly Staff - 7 years ago

The distance covered by Margo is easily seen to be 100 3 \frac{100}{\sqrt{3}} since she travels in a straight line to meet Ursula on the y axis.

The trajectory followed by Sven is more difficult to calculate since it is given by the differential equation d r d t = 2 ( 0 , t ) r ( 0 , t ) r \frac{d\mathbf{r}}{dt}=2\frac{(0,t)-\mathbf{r}}{|(0,t)-\mathbf{r}|} with initial condition r ( 0 ) = ( 100 , 0 ) \mathbf{r}(0)=(100,0)

Instead of solving this analytically, we can try a numerical method since only three digits of precision are required. The code used for the same was as follows

x,y,t=100.,0.,0. dt=1e-5 while x>1e-6: dx=-x dy=t-y norm=sqrt(dx dx+dy dy) x+=2 dt dx/norm y+=2 dt dy/norm t+=dt print t

Mihai Nipomici
May 20, 2014

Let u be Ursula's speed and v-Sven's speed. First find tm for Margo to meet ursula in the shortest amount of time, she should move in a straight line to their point of intersection. Assume this point is located at (0; x), then x = u tm and Margo travels the distance v *tm. And from Pitagora in triangle (100;0);(0;0);(0; x) we obtain 100^2+(utm)^2 = (vtm)^2. It results that tm = 100/sqrt(v^2-u^2) = 57,74s. Now lets compute ts. Let the distance betwen Sven and Ursula at a given time be l. The angle betweem u(vectorial) and v(vectorial) is alpha and it's time-dependant. We have -dl/dt = v -u cos(alpha). Integrating, we obtain l =(Integral) from ts to 0 (v-u cos alpha)dt. But because Sven and Ursula travel the same distance across the Y axis, we get y = u ts =Integral from ts to 0 u*cosalpha dt. From this + previous equation, we get that ts = 100v/(v^2-u^2)= 66,67s. Answer ts -tm = 8,93s.

Pebrudal Zanu
May 20, 2014

If we drawn this problem, we will get path of margo linier, and path of sven quarter of elips: Sven meet with ursula after ursula walk distance x m x m for time t s t_{s} with use aproximation of perimeter of elips: http://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/ellipse-perimeter.html t s = π ( 10 0 2 + x 2 2 ) 4 = x t_{s}=\frac{\pi\sqrt{(\frac{100^2+x^2}{2})}}{4}=x , so that t s = x = 66.781 t_s=x=66.781 And also: Margo meet with ursula for distance y y , and time t m t_m t m = t m = 10 0 2 + y 2 2 = y t_{m}=t_{m}=\sqrt{\frac{100^2+y^2}{2}}=y t m = y = 57.735 t_{m}=y=57.735 and from the problem t s t m = 66.781 57.735 = 9.046 t_{s}-t_{m}=66.781-57.735=9.046 . And we done.

Dhelia Dhelia
May 20, 2014

Let point O is the origin , A(100 , 0) and margo meet ursula at B(0 , y_m) . in order to walk in the shortest amount of time Margo must walk straight ahead to point B. Since Margo’s speed twice than Ursula’s , then AB = 2 ym and OAB = 30°

AB = OA /cos30°

AB = 200/ √3

t_m = (200/√3 m) / (2m/s) = 57.74 s

Sven always walks directly towards Ursula. Since Sven’s speed twice

than Ursula’s , thus Sven’s track is an elliptical with semi-major axis =

100 and semi-minor axis = y_s

Lenght of AC = ¼ x circumference of an ellipse

AC = 2 y_s

¼ (2π √( (100^2 + ys^2)/2 ) = 2 ys

y_s = 66.78

AC = 2 x 66.78 = 115.47 m

t_s = (115.47 m) / (2m/s) = 66.78 s

t s – t m = 66.78 s - 57.74 s = 9.04 s

David Mattingly Staff
May 13, 2014

Let us first do the easier calculation of t m t_m . If Margo walks to meet Ursula in the shortest time, then she is also walking along the path of shortest distance, i.e. a straight line. We can therefore construct the following equation (the Pythagorean theorem for a triangle with legs of length 1 t m 1t_m meters and 100 100 meters and hypotenuse of length 2 t m 2t_m meters),

t m 2 + 10 0 2 = ( 2 t m ) 2 t_m^2+100^2=(2t_m)^2

which allows us to solve for t m = 57.735 s t_m=57.735~\mbox{s} .

Now for Sven's path. This is a classic case of a pursuit curve, which you can read all about here . For the initial conditions and velocities specified, the intersection point is given by ( 0 m , 2 × 100 / ( 2 2 1 ) = 66.667 m ) . (0~\mbox{m}, 2 \times 100/(2^2-1)=66.667~\mbox{m}). Therefore t s = 66.667 s t_s=66.667~\mbox{s} . Hence Margo reaches Ursula 8.935 s 8.935~\mbox{s} before Sven.

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