Triangles with Proportional Sides

Geometry Level 5

Let S S be the set of all triangles which have side lengths a , b , c a, b, c which satisfy the equation a b = b c \frac {a}{b} = \frac {b}{c} . For each triangle A B C ABC in the set S S , let M A B C M_{ABC} denote the value of a c \frac {a}{c} . Let R R be the smallest real number such that M A B C R M_{ABC} \leq R for all triangles A B C ABC in the set S S . The value of 2 R 2R can be expressed as a + b a +\sqrt{b} , where a a and b b are positive integers. What is the value of a + b a+b ?


The answer is 8.

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13 solutions

Calvin Lin Staff
May 13, 2014

For each triangle A B C ABC in the set S S , define N A B C = a b = b c = M A B C N_{ABC} = \frac {a}{b} = \frac {b} {c} = \sqrt{M_{ABC}} . From the equilateral triangle, we have N = 1 N = 1 , so M = N 2 = 1 M=N^2=1 and thus C 1 C\geq 1 . Let us look at triangles in the set S S which satisfy M A B C 1 M_{ABC} \geq 1 , which is equivalent to N A B C 1 N_{ABC}\geq 1 .

From the question, we have b = c N b = cN and a = b N = c N 2 a = bN = cN^2 . The side lengths must satisfy the triangle inequality , so we have N 2 + N > 1 N^2 + N> 1 , N 2 + 1 > N N^2 + 1 > N and N + 1 > N 2 N + 1 > N^2 . The first 2 are trivially satisfied as N 2 N 1 N^2 \geq N \geq 1 . From the third inequality and using the quadratic formula, we have 0 > N 2 N 1 N < 1 + 5 2 0 > N^2 - N - 1 \Rightarrow N < \frac {1 + \sqrt{5} } {2} . Thus, 2 M = 2 N 2 < 3 + 5 2M = 2 N^2 < 3 + \sqrt{5} , which suggests that 2 C = 3 + 5 2C= 3 + \sqrt{5} .

To show that 2 C = 3 + 5 2C=3 + \sqrt{5} is the smallest real number satisfying the inequality, for each real number r r satisfying 1 r < 1 + 5 2 1 \leq r < \frac {1+\sqrt{5} } {2} , there is a triangle with side lengths 1 , r , r 2 1, r, r^2 , showing that C r 2 C \geq r^2 . Hence, we have 2 C 3 + 5 2C \geq 3 + \sqrt{5} .

Thus, 2 C = 3 + 5 2C = 3 + \sqrt{5} , which gives a + b = 3 + 5 = 8 a+b=3+5=8 .

Tran Quoc Dat
Mar 18, 2016

So the LAST problem is to prove that the minimum of R R is 3 + 5 2 \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2} . Suppose that there exists triangle ABC with M > 3 + 5 2 M > \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2} . I want to make the solution easier, so I convert the triangle to a similar one with side a = 1 a = 1 . Then 1 c > 3 + 5 2 \frac{1}{c}\ > \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2} , so 0 < c < 3 5 2 0 < c < \frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2} . By triangle inequality, b + c > a b + c > a , because a = 1 a = 1 and c < 3 5 2 c < \frac{3-\sqrt{5}}{2} , we have b > 5 1 2 b > \frac{\sqrt{5}-1}{2} . a b < 1 b < 1 + 5 2 \frac{a}{b} < \frac{1}{b} < \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2} . b c > 1 + 5 2 \frac{b}{c} > \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2} . This is a contradiction. So there is no triangles ABC with M > 3 + 5 2 M > \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2} . Conclusion: The minimum of R R is 3 + 5 2 \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2} .

Great job!

Note that to get \sqrt to appear in the Latex, you just need to type \sqrt{123}. In addition, you forgot an instance of \frac.

Calvin Lin Staff - 5 years, 2 months ago
Shourya Pandey
May 20, 2014

We are trying to ,in a way, find the maximum value of a c \frac {a}{c} , so let a c a \geq c . So now we have b = a c b= \sqrt {ac} . By triangle inequality, we have a c + c > a \sqrt {ac} + c > a , a c > a c \sqrt {ac}> a-c , and since both LHS and RHS are positive, a c > a 2 + b 2 2 a c ac> a^{2}+b^{2}-2ac , a 2 + c 2 3 a c < 0 a^2+c^2-3ac<0 , ( a c ) 2 3 ( a c ) + 1 < 0 (\frac {a}{c})^{2}-3(\frac {a}{c})+1<0 , x 2 3 x + 1 < 0 x^{2}-3x+1<0 , where x = a c x= \frac {a}{c} , ( x 3 + 5 2 ) ( x 3 5 2 ) (x- \frac {3+\sqrt 5}{2})(x- \frac {3- \sqrt 5}{2}) , ( 3 5 2 ) < x < ( 3 + 5 2 ) (\frac {3- \sqrt 5}{2}) <x <(\frac {3+\sqrt 5}{2}) . Now obviously the upper bound cannot be improved,and holds for a degenerate triangle, and so we take C = 3 + 5 2 C= \frac {3+\sqrt 5}{2} , so that the answer to the question is 8 8 .

All submitted solutions were incomplete. No one explained why 2 C = 3 + 5 2C = 3 + \sqrt{5} is indeed the minimum. For example, we can show that a b 100 \frac{a}{b} \leq 100 , but we do not use 2 C = 200 2C = 200 .

This comes closest by claiming that "the upper bound cannot be improved", but provides no justification.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Lu Hao
May 20, 2014

The condition in the given question states that a/b = b/c. This means that

a/c = (b^2)/(c^2). ----- (1)

By triangle inequality, we have a < b+c. Dividing both sides by c, we get

a/c = 1+ (b/c). ----- (2)

Since there is no further specifications on the dimensions of the triangle. We will rely on the aforementioned equations to solve the problem.

(1) and (2) gives us

(b^2)/(c^2) < (b/c) + 1

(b^2)/(c^2) - (b/c) - 1 < 0

Solving for b/c and squaring to find a/c, we have

a/c < (3 + 5^(1/2))/2 C = (3 + 5^(1/2))/2 2C = (3 + 5^(1/2))

Therefore, a+b = 3+5 = 8.

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Shouvik Ganguly
May 20, 2014

In this problem, we have to find the maximum value of a c \frac{a}{c} , subject to the condition a b = b c \frac{a}{b} = \frac{b}{c} , where a, b and c are the sides of a triangle. Clearly, b has value intermediate to those of a and c, and to maximize a c \frac{a}{c} , we have to set c > a.

Let b = k c b=kc , a = k 2 c a=k^{2}c , where k > 1 k>1 .

We know that sum of two sides is greater than the third, and more specifically, the greatest side is smaller than the sum of the other two sides. Hence, k 2 c k c + c k^{2}c \leq kc + c

i.e., k 2 k 1 0 k^{2} - k -1 \leq 0

i.e. k being +ve, k 5 + 1 2 k \leq \frac{\sqrt{5}+1}{2}

Hence C = k m a x 2 = 3 + 5 2 C = k_{max}^{2} = \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2}

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Zi Song Yeoh
May 20, 2014

WLOG, let a = 1 a = 1 . Then, c = b 2 c = b^{2} . By triangle inequality, b 2 b 1 < 0 b^{2} - b - 1 < 0 and b 2 + b 1 > 0 b^{2} + b - 1 > 0 . Solving these inequalities gives 5 1 2 < b < 5 + 1 2 \frac{\sqrt{5} - 1}{2} < b < \frac{\sqrt{5} + 1}{2} . We want to find the maximum possible value of 1 b 2 \frac{1}{b^{2}} . This is equal to the value of 4 ( 5 1 ) 2 = 3 + 5 2 \frac{4}{(\sqrt{5} - 1)^{2}} = \frac{3 + \sqrt{5}}{2} . The answer is 3 + 5 = 8 3 + 5 = 8 .

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Hero P.
May 20, 2014

Without loss of generality, we may take c = 1 c = 1 , since all quantities of interest ( a / b a/b , b / c b/c , a / c a/c ) are expressed as ratios of the side lengths. Note that the equilateral triangle a = b = c = 1 a = b = c = 1 is in S S : a / b = b / c = 1 a/b = b/c = 1 , hence C M A B C = a / c = 1 C \ge M_{ABC} = a/c = 1 . So we need only consider the case a > b > c a > b > c , which implies a = b 2 a = b^2 . The only triangle inequality not already trivially satisfied is b + c > a b+c > a , or b 2 b 1 < 0 b^2 - b - 1 < 0 , and solving the quadratic gives the upper bound 1 < b < 1 + 5 2 . 1 < b < \frac{1 + \sqrt{5}}{2}. Thus the least upper bound of a / c = a = b 2 a/c = a = b^2 is C = ( 1 + 5 2 ) 2 = 3 + 5 2 , C = \left( \frac{1 + \sqrt{5}}{2} \right)^2 = \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2}, and 2 C = 3 + 5 2C = 3 + \sqrt{5} , so the answer is 8 8 .

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Clarence Chew
May 20, 2014

Let a b = b c = k \frac{a}{b}=\frac{b}{c}=k , thus c k 2 = b k = a ck^2=bk=a . Note a , b , c , k > 0 a, b, c, k>0 .

Since a c \frac{a}{c} is maximized, we need a to be the longest side and c to be the shortest side, instead of c being the longest side and a being the shortest side. Note that a, c cannot be the median side (unless k=1) as:

k > 1 a > b > c k>1 \Rightarrow a>b>c or k < 1 a < b < c k<1 \Rightarrow a<b<c .

Since a is the longest side now, we can use the triangle inequality.

a < b + c c k 2 < c k + c k 2 k < 1 a<b+c \Rightarrow ck^2<ck+c \Rightarrow k^2-k<1

Since the function f ( k ) = k 2 k f(k)=k^2-k is increasing, thus we need k < k< positive root of k 2 k 1 k^2-k-1 . By the quadratic formula,

x 2 x 1 = 0 x = 1 ± 5 2 x^2-x-1=0 \Rightarrow x=\frac{1 \pm \sqrt{5}}{2}

The positive root is thus 1 + 5 2 \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2} , thus k < 1 + 5 2 k<\frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2}

Since both sides are positive (First line, k>0), we can square both sides of the inequality.

a c = k 2 < 3 + 5 2 \frac{a}{c}=k^2<\frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2}

2 C = 2 m a x k 2 = 3 + 5 2C=2 max{k^2}=3+\sqrt{5}

Thus a + b = 8 a+b=8

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Vostro Del
May 20, 2014

given: a/b=b/c=r(let)

so sides of triangle are b/r, b ,br

b/r + b > br

r^2-r-1>0 which gives {-1 + sqrt{5} } / { 2}<r< {-1 + sqrt{5} } / { 2}

max. value of M_{ABC}=r^2 < {3 + sqrt{5} } / { 2}

so 2*C={3 + sqrt{5} } / { 2}

C= 3 + sqrt{5}

     so required ans=3+5=8.

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Tingxuan Wang
May 20, 2014

Let us suppose a/b=b/c=k. Therefore, we can get a=bk=ck^2 (k>1). Since the sum of the lengths of any two sides of a triangle must be greater than the third side, a<b+c which means ck^2<ck+c Therefore, by quadratic formula, we will get 1<k<(sqrt5+1)/2 Notice that C≥M=a/c=k^2 Since the largest value of k^2<[(sqrt5+10/2]^2=(3+sqrt5)/2, easily we can conclude that the value of 2C will be 3+sqrt5. Hence, the value of a+b=8

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago

Say we have a triangle A B C ABC of S S , with side lengths a , b , c a, b, c . The number M A B C M_{ABC} remains unchanged if we divide all the side lengths by c c , and it is still a triangle of S S , so we may assume without loss of generality that c = 1 c = 1 . In that case, by definition of the set S S , we have a b = b \frac{a}{b} = b , which gives a = b 2 a = b^2 . We also have M A B C = a c = b 2 M_{ABC} = \frac{a}{c} = b^2 .

We have now reduced the problem to looking at triangles with side lengths 1 , b , b 2 1, b, b^2 , and the problem is asking us for the supremum $C$ of the possible values of b 2 b^2 , with the only limiting factor being that 1 , b , b 2 1, b, b^2 are the sides of a triangle. If we define s = C s = \sqrt{C} , then s s is the supremum of values of b b , with the limitation that b b statisfies the triangle inequality: b 2 < 1 + b b^2 < 1 + b We find that supremum by solving the equation s 2 = 1 + s s = 1 ± ( ( 1 ) 2 4 1 ( 1 ) ) 2 % t h i s s q u a r e r o o t w o n t r e n d e r p r o p e r l y o n m y c o m p u t e r , t h e p a r e n t h e s e s p a r t l y s o l v e d t h e p r o b l e m , b u t i t s n o t p r e t t y . = 1 ± 5 2 s^2 = 1 + s\\ \Downarrow\\ s = \frac{1\pm \sqrt{\left((-1)^2 - 4\cdot 1 \cdot (-1)\right)}}{2} \%this square root won't render properly on my computer, the parentheses partly solved the problem, but it's not pretty. = \frac{1 \pm \sqrt{5}}{2} Since we're only interested in the positive solution, we're left with s = 1 + 5 2 s = \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2} . Now we can calculate the number the problem asked us to find: 2 C = 2 s 2 = 2 ( 1 + 5 ) 2 4 = 1 + 2 1 5 + 5 2 = 6 + 2 5 2 = 3 + 5 2C = 2s^2 = 2\cdot\frac{\left(1+\sqrt{5}\right)^2}{4} = \frac{1+2\cdot 1 \cdot\sqrt{5} + 5}{2} \\ = \frac{6 + 2\sqrt{5}}{2} = 3 + \sqrt{5} Now we have the number we were asked to find, on the form we were asked to write it, so the final answer is 3 + 5 = 8 3+5 = 8 .

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Kim Phú Ngô
May 20, 2014

According to the Triangle inequality:

b + c > a b + c > a

b c + c c > a c \Leftrightarrow \frac{b}{c} + \frac{c}{c} > \frac{a}{c}

b c + 1 > a b b c ( b , c > 0 ) \Leftrightarrow \frac{b}{c} + 1 > \frac{a}{b}\cdot\frac{b}{c} (b,c>0)

( b c ) 2 b c 1 < 0 \Leftrightarrow (\frac{b}{c})^2 - \frac{b}{c} - 1 < 0

(Note that a, b, c are positive and so is b c \frac{b}{c} )

b c < 1 + 5 2 \Leftrightarrow \frac{b}{c} < \frac{1+\sqrt{5}}{2}

M A B C = a c = ( b c ) 2 < 6 + 2 5 4 \Leftrightarrow M_{ABC} = \frac{a}{c} = (\frac{b}{c})^2 < \frac{6+2\sqrt{5}}{4}

Thus, 2 C = 3 + 5 2C = 3+\sqrt{5} and the value of a + b a+b is 8 8

Note: other inequalities are then satisfied.

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago
Anh Tuong Nguyen
May 20, 2014

Let a b = b c = r \frac{a}{b}=\frac{b}{c}=r , then M A B C = a c = a b . b c = r 2 M_{ABC}=\frac{a}{c}=\frac{a}{b}.\frac{b}{c}=r^2

Without loss of generality, assume a b = b c = r 1 \frac{a}{b}=\frac{b}{c}=r\geq 1 , or a b c a\geq b\geq c

By triangle's inequality, a b + c a\leq b+c a c b c + 1 \rightarrow \frac{a}{c}\leq \frac{b}{c} +1 r 2 r + 1 \rightarrow r^2\leq r+1 ( r 1 2 ) 2 5 4 \rightarrow (r-\frac{1}{2})^2\leq \frac{5}{4} r 5 + 1 2 \rightarrow r \leq \frac{\sqrt{5}+1}{2} r 2 3 + 5 2 \rightarrow r^2 \leq \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2}

Therefore, M A B C = r 2 3 + 5 2 = C M_{ABC}=r^2\leq \frac{3+\sqrt{5}}{2} = C and 2 C = 3 + 5 2C=3+\sqrt{5} . The desired answer is 3 + 5 = 8 3+5=8 .

Need to explain why that is indeed the minimum.

Calvin Lin Staff - 7 years ago

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