Triangular spider web

In this rectangular window frame, a spider begins to weave its web. The basic framework consists of three threads, which start from points A , B , A, B, and C C and are glued together at point D . D.

What is the length l A l_A of the first thread in centimeters?

Assumptions: Without tension, all threads have the same length, but they are stretched many times their original length. Thus, the tension force F i k l i F_i \approx - k l_i acting along a thread is approximately proportional to its total length l i l_i . While the lengths l i l_i of the threads can be different, the spring constant k k is the same for all threads. Apart from the tension, no further forces act on the spider threads.


The answer is 50.

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10 solutions

Peter Macgregor
Jun 18, 2018

My solution is based on minimising the total energy stored in the elastic threads. The energy is proportional to the square of the extension, and we take the extensions to be equal to the lengths shown in the problem.

Construct a coordinate axes with the origin at A and let the point where the three strands join be (x,y). Then use Pythagoras Theorem to find the squares of the lengths to see that the energy is proportional to

x 2 + y 2 + ( 90 y ) 2 + ( 30 x ) 2 + ( 60 x ) 2 + ( 30 y ) 2 = 3 ( x 2 + y 2 60 x 80 y ) + constant x^2+y^2+(90-y)^2+(30-x)^2+(60-x)^2+(30-y)^2=3(x^2+y^2-60 x -80 y) +\text{constant}

Completing the squares lets us write this as

3 ( x 30 ) 2 + 3 ( y 40 ) 2 + a different constant 3(x-30)^2+3(y-40)^2+\text{a different constant}

Since the first two terms can never be negative, the energy is minimised when they are both zero, in other words when x = 30 and y = 40. Using Pythagoras one more time then gives us the required length as 50 \boxed{50}

The tension force F i \vec F_i along the thread i i corresponds (except for a prefactor k -k ) to the connecting vector between the points i i and D D : F i = k ( r i r D ) , i = A , B , C \vec F_i = - k \left( \vec r_i - \vec r_D \right), \quad i = A, B, C The position vectors are given by r A = ( 0 0 ) , r B = ( 60 30 ) , r C = ( 30 90 ) , r D = ( x y ) \vec r_A = \left( \begin{array}{c} 0 \\ 0 \end{array} \right), \quad \vec r_B = \left( \begin{array}{c} 60 \\ 30 \end{array} \right), \quad \vec r_C = \left( \begin{array}{c} 30 \\ 90 \end{array} \right), \quad \vec r_D = \left( \begin{array}{c} x \\ y \end{array} \right) In equilibrium, the sum of all forces must be zero: 0 = ! i = A , B , C F i = k ( i = A , B , C r i 3 r D ) r D = 1 3 i = A , B , C r i = ( 30 40 ) l A = r D = 3 0 2 + 4 0 2 = 50 \begin{aligned} & & 0 &\stackrel{!}{=} \sum_{i = A, B, C} \vec F_i \\ & & &= - k \left( \sum_{i = A, B, C} \vec r_i - 3 \vec r_D \right) \\ \Rightarrow & & \vec r_D &= \frac{1}{3} \sum_{i = A, B, C} \vec r_i \\ & & &= \left( \begin{array}{c} 30 \\ 40 \end{array} \right) \\ \Rightarrow & & l_A &= |\vec r_D| \\ & & &= \sqrt{30^2 + 40^2} \\ & & &= 50 \end{aligned} Thus, the point D D corresponds to the center of gravity of the triangle A B C ABC .

If the tension forces on all 3 threads are identical and balance out, then necessarily the angles between any two threads must be 120 degrees. In that case, x = 40.980762 x=40.980762 , y = 36.3397459 y=36.3397459 , and I A = 54.77225 I_A=54.77225

From looking at your computations, what you are probably doing is assuming that the original lengths of I a , I b , I c I_a, I_b, I_c were all the same, but were stretched out to meet at point D D . Is that right? If so, then it works out the way you have done this, but that should have been made clear in the problem statement.

Michael Mendrin - 3 years ago

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I have now added the assumption that the threads originally had the same length. However, I do not know if that actually provides clarity, since the threads are stretched so enormously anyway, so that the original length of the threads actually does not matter.

Correctly, however, the Hooke's forces would not simply depend on the direction vector l i \vec l_i but on the elongation l i l 0 e i \vec l_i - l_0 \vec e_i . The equilibrium is then

0 = k i ( l i l 0 e i ) 0 = - k \sum_{i} ( \vec l_i - l_0 \vec e_i)

This is generally a non-linear equation since the directions e i = l i / l i \vec e_i = \vec l_i/l_i depend in a complicated way on coordinates of the point D D . I have decided to simplify the problem by neglecting the term l 0 e i l_0 \vec e_i . This is, of course, something counterintuitive, since you apply Hooke's law to extreme strains for which it should not really be valid.

Markus Michelmann - 3 years ago

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I think you've made it clear enough for an unambiguous answer. A good analogy would be that each of the threads start out alike as very short, tightly wound coil springs that can expand considerably, making its original length irrelevant. Kind of like slinkies. Presumably, the spider squirts the same amount of "silk juice" for each of the threads, and then they are stretched as how forces balance out.

Michael Mendrin - 3 years ago
Chew-Seong Cheong
Jun 18, 2018

Let us resolve the tensions in the three threads into the x x and y y components parallel to the frame sides. Since the tension is directly proportional to the length of the thread l i l_i so are the x x and y y components of the tension to the x x and y y lengths.

Equating the two components of tension we have { x A = x B + x C . . . ( 1 ) y A + y B = y C . . . ( 2 ) \begin{cases} \color{#3D99F6} x_A = x_B+x_C & ...(1) \\ \color{#D61F06} y_A+y_B = y_C & ...(2) \end{cases}

We also note that { x A + x B = 60 . . . ( 3 ) x A + x C = 30 . . . ( 4 ) \begin{cases} x_A+x_B = 60 & ...(3) \\ x_A + x_C = 30 &...(4) \end{cases}

( 3 ) + ( 4 ) : 2 x A + x B + x C = 90 ( 1 ) : x A = x B + x C 3 x A = 90 x A = 30 \begin{aligned} (3)+(4): \quad 2x_A + \color{#3D99F6} x_B + x_C & = 90 & \small \color{#3D99F6} (1): \ \ x_A = x_B+x_C \\ 3x_A & = 90 \\ \implies x_A & = 30 \end{aligned}

Similarly, { y A y B = 30 . . . ( 5 ) y A + y C = 90 . . . ( 6 ) \begin{cases} y_A - y_B = 30 & ...(5) \\ y_A + y_C = 90 & ...(6) \end{cases}

( 5 ) + ( 6 ) : 2 y A y B + y C = 120 ( 2 ) : y A + y B = y C y A = y B + y C 3 y A = 120 y A = 40 \begin{aligned} (5)+(6): \quad 2y_A \color{#D61F06} - y_B + y_C & = 120 & \small \color{#D61F06} (2): \ \ y_A+y_B = y_C \implies y_A = - y_B + y_C \\ 3y_A & = 120 \\ \implies y_A & = 40 \end{aligned}

Therefore, I A = x A 2 + y A 2 = 3 0 2 + 4 0 2 = 50 I_A = \sqrt{x_A^2 + y_A^2} = \sqrt{30^2+40^2} = \boxed{50} .

Jeremy Galvagni
Jun 18, 2018

Suppose there were two threads instead of three. The point D would, of course, be halfway between them.

Now suppose one of those threads were a double thread. Think of A and B at the same place and C on the other side. D would then be closer to A. In fact, DA:DC = 1:2. It reminds me of the law of the lever.

Next, imagine A and C as they are in the picture buy B at (60,0). D would clearly be at (30,30). This point is the Centroid of the triangle ABC, the balancing point.

So all we need to do is average the x and y coordinates to find D. D x = 0 + 60 + 30 3 = 30 D_{x}=\frac{0+60+30}{3}=30 , D y = 0 + 30 + 90 3 = 40 D_{y}=\frac{0+30+90}{3}=40 . Then apply the distance formula from ( 0 , 0 ) (0,0) to ( 30 , 40 ) (30,40) which gives 50 \boxed{50}

Peter Schmidt
Jun 22, 2018

A geometrical solution:

ABC is an isosceles rectangular triangle ( A B = B C = 30 5 \overline{AB}= \overline{BC} = 30 \cdot \sqrt{5} and A C = 30 10 \overline{AC} = 30 \cdot \sqrt{10} ).

Since all three threads are physically the same it is a symmetrical problem and the point D has to be on the axis of symmetry, the median.

The vectors D A , D B \vec{DA}, \vec{DB} and D C \vec{DC} are proportional to the tension forces, therefore the sum of D A \vec{DA} and D C \vec{DC} must equal D B -\vec{DB} .

Let M be the midpoint of A C \overline{AC} , then D M = 1 2 ( D A + D C ) = 1 2 D B \vec{DM} = \frac{1}{2} \cdot ( \vec{DA} + \vec{DC}) = -\frac{1}{2} \cdot \vec{DB} .

Because of B M = A M = 1 2 30 10 \overline{BM} = \overline{AM} = \frac{1}{2} \cdot 30 \cdot \sqrt{10} consequently follows D M = 1 3 B M = 1 3 1 2 30 10 = 5 10 \overline{DM} = \frac{1}{3} \cdot \overline{BM} = \frac{1}{3} \cdot \frac{1}{2} \cdot 30 \cdot \sqrt{10} =5 \cdot \sqrt{10} .

l A = D A l_A = \overline{DA} is the hypotenuse of the rectangular triangle ADM, wich can be calculated by the Pythagoras theorem: l A = A M 2 + D M 2 = ( 15 10 ) 2 + 5 10 ) 2 = 50 l_A=\sqrt{ \overline{AM}^2 + \overline{DM}^2} = \sqrt{(15 \cdot \sqrt{10})^2 + 5 \cdot \sqrt{10})^2} = \boxed{50} .

Kelvin Hong
Jun 24, 2018

Let z 1 , z 2 , z 3 z_1,z_2,z_3 be the complex numbers which represent the line l A , l B , l C l_A,l_B,l_C and the direction of them are all pointing to the center.

Because the equilibrium state, the force vector must sum to zero, but the assumption F = k l i F=-kl_i state that the lines aka the complex number will also sum to zero. Let's start:

By letting z k = a k + b k i z_k=a_k+b_ki for k = 1 , 2 , 3 k=1,2,3 , we have below six-equation group: { a 1 a 2 = 60 a 1 a 3 = 30 b 1 b 2 = 30 b 1 b 3 = 90 a 1 + a 2 + a 3 = 0 b 1 + b 2 + b 3 = 0 \begin{cases}a_1-a_2=60\\a_1-a_3=30\\b_1-b_2=30\\b_1-b_3=90\\a_1+a_2+a_3=0\\b_1+b_2+b_3=0\end{cases}

Summing up the first, second and the fifth equation gets us a 1 = 30 a_1=30 .

Summing up the third, fourth and the fifth equation gets us b 1 = 40 b_1=40 .

So z 1 = 3 0 2 + 4 0 2 = 50 |z_1|=\sqrt{30^2+40^2}=\boxed{50} .

Malcolm Rich
Jun 23, 2018

Think of a,b,c as the vectors AD,DB and DC respectively.

So a+b = AB = (60,30) and a+c = AC = (30,90)

Adding these together gives

2a + (b+c) = (90,120)

Since the forces at D are in equilibrium and they are proportional to the length of the vectors we also have

-a + b + c = 0 => a = b + c

Substituting (b+c) in our earlier result gives

3a = (90,120) => a = (30,40)

=> length of a is 50.

Steven Wong
Jun 21, 2018

Directly, measure the length of la on the monitor screen using a ruler. Use the 30 cm on the RHS to scale the measured length. Then, you will get 50 cm.

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Matthaios Chouzouris - 2 years, 11 months ago
Charles Link
Jun 21, 2018

My hypothesis, unproven as of yet, is that the point D is at the centroid of triangle ABC. It helped in solving that the triangle ABC is isosceles, with side AB having the same length as side BC. The centroid is located a distance 2/3 of the way to the opposite side. Starting from B, the line that bisects side AC intersects it at right angles, allowing for use of the Pythagorean theorem to solve for the location of the centroid that presumably is also point D.

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