Tricky spring balance

Manya hung two blocks of respective masses 10 kg 10 \text{ kg} and 5 kg . 5 \text{ kg}.

What is the reading on the spring balance ( ( in kg ) ? \text{kg})?

Assumptions: The pulley and string are both massless and frictionless. The spring balance is calibrated to read the mass of a stationary object hung in the current gravity.


The answer is 13.333.

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4 solutions

Ram Mohith
Sep 10, 2018

Relevant wiki: Constraint Relation

After drawing FBD of the two blocks you will get two equations which after solving you will get acceleration and tension in the lower string. 10 g T = 10 a T 5 g = 5 a a = g 3 , T = 20 g 3 \begin{array}{c}~10g - T = 10a \\ \space T - 5g = 5a \\ \hline \\ \boxed{a = \dfrac{g}{3}} \quad, \quad \boxed{T = \dfrac{20g}{3}} \\ \end{array} Assuming that the pulley is mass-less, tension in the upper string will be twice the tension in lower string, T e q = 2 T = 40 g 3 \boxed{T_{eq} = 2T = \dfrac{40g}{3}} .


The reading on a Spring Balance shows the mass acting on it. But here we got tension T e q T_{eq} which is equal to weight acting on spring balance. But, we know that W = m g 40 g 3 = m g W = mg \implies \dfrac{40g}{3} = mg

m = 40 3 k g 13.333 k g \implies \boxed{{\color{#20A900}m = \dfrac{40}{3}~kg}\quad {\color{#3D99F6} \approx 13.333~kg}} \qquad \qquad

For the last equation, 40g / g = m

Soumen Mohanty - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Thanks for informing. I have edited it.

Ram Mohith - 2 years, 8 months ago

So the reading is wrong? One has effectively reduced mass by hanging it from a string?

Brian Lamptey - 2 years, 8 months ago

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While the two weights are accelerating, the effective mass is reduced.
If the 5kg weight hits the pulley and stops, then the weight will end up as 15kg.
If the weight is not stopped by the pulley then the weight becomes zero.

The implication, even if not explicit, is that the first scenario is the one we are interested in.

Richard Farrer - 2 years, 8 months ago

Yes because there is acceleration of blocks. This is the same reason when an object is freely falling due to gravity, it experiences weightlessness.

Michael De Santa - 1 year, 3 months ago

Surely we can't assume that she would read the weight before the system came to equilibrium.

The 5kg block would accelerate to the pulley, get stuck, and the spring would read a combined weight of 15kg.

Unless it's an open pulley in which case the weight would be 0kg after the weights fell off.

Everyone who's answered this question has replied with the initial weight, before the system came to rest - but the question doesn't indicate that we should do that.

Kevin Higby - 2 years, 8 months ago

Looks great except I think it reaches equilibrium when the 5kg mass reaches the top of the pulley and the 10kg mass reaches the bottom of the rope. At that point it will stop and effectively be a 5kg mass attached to a 10kg mass attached t o a spring scale. Try it and see for yourselves

philip wesel - 2 years, 7 months ago
Arjen Vreugdenhil
Sep 22, 2018

Call the two hanging masses m 1 , m 2 m_1, m_2 . The standard analysis of the Atwood machine shows that they accelerate at a 1 , 2 = ± m 1 m 2 m 1 + m 2 g . a_{1,2} = \pm \frac{m_1-m_2}{m_1+m_2} g. Thus their center of mass accelerates at a rate a C M = m 1 a 1 + m 2 a 2 m 1 + m 2 = ( m 1 m 2 m 1 + m 2 ) 2 g . a_{CM} = \frac{m_1a_1+m_2a_2}{m_1+m_2} = \left(\frac{m_1-m_2}{m_1+m_2}\right)^2\:g. Apply Newton's Second Law to the system of the two masses plus the pulley; the two forces acting are the upward tension from the scale F s F_s and the downward force of gravity F g = ( m 1 + m 2 ) g F_g = (m_1+m_2)g , so that F s = F g F net = ( m 1 + m 2 ) g ( m 1 + m 2 ) a C M F_s = F_g - F_{\text{net}} = (m_1+m_2)g - (m_1+m_2)a_{CM} and division by g g gives the reading of the scale, F s g = ( m 1 + m 2 ) ( 1 ( m 1 m 2 m 1 + m 2 ) 2 ) = 4 m 1 m 2 m 1 + m 2 . \frac{F_s}g = (m_1+m_2)\left(1 - \left(\frac{m_1-m_2}{m_1+m_2}\right)^2\right) = \frac{4m_1m_2}{m_1+m_2}. In this case it is 4 10 5 10 + 5 = 200 15 = 40 3 = 13.33 kg . \frac{4\cdot 10\cdot 5}{10+5} = \frac{200}{15} = \frac{40}{3} = \boxed{13.33}\ \text{kg}.

'tis always a good learning experience to read your solve posts. JLO

Jesse Otis - 2 years, 8 months ago
Vinod Kumar
Sep 24, 2018

Spring will measure 2T as the weight, where, T is the tension in the string attached to each weight. The equations are( g is acceleration under gravity, a is acceleration of each mass):

(1) T=5g+5a,

(2) 10g=T+10a

Solving, 2T=(40/3)g,

Answer=(40/3)=13.333.

@Vinod Kumar Sir I have a doubt.can you please clear it ?Sir why you not multiplied g in the last step??Please reply.

Anand Badgujar - 2 years, 8 months ago

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Simply, because, the spring balance is going to show 13.333 as the reading.

When we weigh something on weighing machine, the number displayed is without g multiplication.

Vinod Kumar - 2 years, 8 months ago
Jeremy Galvagni
Sep 24, 2018

The net force downward is only 5. So the 10kg block is falling at 5/15=1/3 of its "usual" rate. So the spring will only feel 2/3 of what it would if this weight were at rest. On the other side, the 5kg block is rising at an extra 1/3. So the spring will feel 4/3 of what it would if this block were at rest.

Total felt by the spring: 10(2/3)+5(4/3)=40/3=13.3333

My thinking was very similar. If there was one 5kg block on each side, it would be at rest, and the scale would read 10kg. If you add one 5kg block to one side, that block would add a force of one block but have the inertia of all three. So the extra block accelerates at, as you said, "1/3 the usual rate". So the spring takes the other 2/3 of the force, resulting in 10kg + (2/3)*5kg = 13.333kg.

Forest Roberts - 2 years, 8 months ago

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